how would fans perceive Tony without the winning streak?

Most of those points aren't half as bad as you make them out to be.

He said "Fuck you" to a reporter? Boo-hoo, the instigating bitch probably deserved it.
Methodically disrespecting Werdum? He said "Hold on brother I'm talking" and Werdum lost his shit. A bit disrespectful by Tony but it was more like a dumb thing that escalated and got out of hand.
He didn't feel like giving Gaethje a hug aftewr taking a life changing beating? Yeah what an asshole. Never mind they hugged it out 1 minute later.

I could keep refuting your points but essentially Tony is not as bad as you make him out. He is no angel but he's also no Conor or Jones. Despite his weird antics and abrasive personality he is still widely respected among fighters, partly because he never crosses that line. You ask anybody he's fought, they have the utmost respect for Tony.
 
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He always came to fight. I could care less about his personality. I almost never watch the press conferences because I don't have time. It makes me appreciate the fighters in the cage and Tony was always game in the cage.
 
ChinaMMABlog said:
After Werdum left and Tony continued his scrum, he directly mentioned his issue with Ali, and thus Werdum.

"In the report, Tony is described as “not a danger to self or others'" : https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/3/...ing-order-after-multiple-police-calls-to-home

I think you just don't like Tony for some reason.
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Yeah. I gave 9 reasons in the OP. I wouldn't be one of those whiny people IRL lecturing the person about what I don't like but if I saw the guy in real life I wouldn't be keen to interact with him.

I don't get what "mentioned his issue with Ali, and thus Werdum" means though. Are you saying it makes sense to hate Werdum because he was managed by a guy Tony didn't like? That makes no sense.
Eric Silva 2.0 said:
Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist so I would put his somewhere between Tyson and Rich Franklin, probably closer to Tyson.
Click to expand...
Ok we had to go outside MMA for a more extreme example, but yeah, you nailed it there. Fans are usually judgemental but there are notable exceptions for sure. Tyson being one for sure. Not that they (Tyson and Tony) are terribly similar in either their fight accomplishments or their character traits, but interesting nonetheless.
HatKick said:
Less than half those points are as bad as you make them out to be.

He said "Fuck you" to a reporter? Boo-hoo, the instigating bitch probably deserved it.
Methodically disrespecting Werdum? He said "Hold on brother I'm talking" and Werdum lost his shit. A bit disrespectful by Tony but it was more like a dumb thing that escalated and got out of hand.
He didn't feel like giving Gaethje a hug aftewr taking a life changing beating? Yeah what an asshole. Never mind they hugged it out 1 minute later.

I could keep refuting your points but essentially Tony is not as bad as you make him out. He is no angel but he's also no Conor or Jones. Despite his weird antics and abrasive personality he is still widely respected among fighters, partly because he never crosses that line. You ask anybody he's fought, they have the utmost respect for Tony.
Click to expand...
I don't think he's the worst thing or an angel, no, I just think he is an extreme example of being treated differently solely off a stretched out time of contendership, and I compared him to other fighters who likely have mental issues but get absolutely nothing but hate on here.

For example, your defense above, trying to belittle every thing I said. No one would do that for other "abnormal" fighters I mentioned. Also, your Werdum take is historical revisionism.

He fucks with him for several minutes with extreme negativity in general, then in his interview says he'll fight Werdum, and finally Fabricio has a "WTF" moment.

Fabricio is a chill guy the whole damn time while Tony is the most self-absorbed/bastion of negativity possible, aided and abetted by media who are busy stroking his ego throughout the interview. How anyone can watch the video and come to a different conclusion is mind-boggling to me.
 
Dionysian said:
Yeah. I gave 9 reasons in the OP. I wouldn't be one of those whiny people IRL lecturing the person about what I don't like but if I saw the guy in real life I wouldn't be keen to interact with him.

I don't get what "mentioned his issue with Ali, and thus Werdum" means though. Are you saying it makes sense to hate Werdum because he was managed by a guy Tony didn't like? That makes no sense.

Ok we had to go outside MMA for a more extreme example, but yeah, you nailed it there. Fans are usually judgemental but there are notable exceptions for sure. Tyson being one for sure. Not that they (Tyson and Tony) are terribly similar in either their fight accomplishments or their character traits, but interesting nonetheless.

I don't think he's the worst thing or an angel, no, I just think he is an extreme example of being treated differently solely off a stretched out time of contendership, and I compared him to other fighters who likely have mental issues but get absolutely nothing but hate on here.

For example, your defense above, trying to belittle every thing I said. No one would do that for other "abnormal" fighters I mentioned. Also, your Werdum take is historical revisionism.

He fucks with him for several minutes with extreme negativity in general, then in his interview says he'll fight Werdum, and finally Fabricio has a "WTF" moment.

Fabricio is a chill guy the whole damn time while Tony is the most self-absorbed/bastion of negativity possible, aided and abetted by media who are busy stroking his ego throughout the interview. How anyone can watch the video and come to a different conclusion is mind-boggling to me.
Click to expand...

I've never seen the full video wow, Werdum is actually completely relaxed until being dissed like 3 times.
 
He hugged gathje right after though once everything calmed down.

You wouldn't know how these things go when you are stuck to basement all day. Crap thread, posted a bunch of nothing.
 
Dionysian said:
So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?
Click to expand...
Tony is still a Hall of Famer in my eyes.

His elbow practically can cut opponents easily - and his 12 fights win streak is not a mere accident imo, no longer in his prime Tony is just too old now for his imposing-his-will/cardio/platinum-chin fighting style

EKs423yXUAEhTj6.jpg
 
He made the aura while on the winning streak. Once on a skid, the talk is no longer enforced.
 
As a crazy mofo who writes in cypher codes on instagram and TV cables are his Kryptonite.
 
Dionysian said:
So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?
Click to expand...
Tony wasn’t mocking someone for “losing” their child, the guy was in a custody battle for probably being a scumbag. War Tony
 
arathans said:
id didnt know he brought up a fighter losing their kid. as a parent, that is totally fucked up and not expectable. thats the sort of shit dana should cut people for. i understand trash talking but seriously, certain things you dont go after and someones dead kid is one of them.
Click to expand...
OP phrased it that way to make Tony look bad, the kid didn’t die he was in a custody battle for beating his kid.
 
Dionysian said:
I don't think he's the worst thing or an angel, no, I just think he is an extreme example of being treated differently solely off a stretched out time of contendership, and I compared him to other fighters who likely have mental issues but get absolutely nothing but hate on here.

For example, your defense above, trying to belittle every thing I said. No one would do that for other "abnormal" fighters I mentioned. Also, your Werdum take is historical revisionism.

He fucks with him for several minutes with extreme negativity in general, then in his interview says he'll fight Werdum, and finally Fabricio has a "WTF" moment.

Fabricio is a chill guy the whole damn time while Tony is the most self-absorbed/bastion of negativity possible, aided and abetted by media who are busy stroking his ego throughout the interview. How anyone can watch the video and come to a different conclusion is mind-boggling to me.
Click to expand...

I think part of the reason is Tony always brings it. If you talk shit you better not be a running ducking bitch like Conor or Sean O'Malley. If you fight like a madman and eat punches the way Tony does, you get a pass for certain things you say. We all like the "boogey men" of the divisions to talk a bit of smack.

I agree Tony was in the wrong in the Werdum incident. Werdum was chill the whole time and understandably got mad. It was still kind of funny though, so most people are gonna laugh.
The "where's your kid at" incident was also not cool and shows Tony's instability. Overall I don't think I'm making excuses for Tony just because he was successful. Plenty of successful fighters I don't like. I really just think most of your points are not valid. Tony has rarely crossed the line where it was unacceptable. Mostly he's just weird and calls people bitches and fatheads but it's no big deal.
 
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Tony is one of the most creative fighters to ever compete in the UFC, no one can take that from him. This is competition not a hug fest.
 
So imagine he didn't win even though he did and then think about how you would think of this fantasy version of Tony.
 
Dionysian said:
So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?
Click to expand...

The would view him as 50 cents.
 
Idk I met Tony around 2012 or 13, so admittedly a long time before any of the stuff TS is complaining about, and he was super humble and cool. He just seemed excited that I was supportive of him and knew who he was and he was happy to talk and take time out from his vacation to talk to a fight fan. I liked him ever since, he was really cool to me.

Other than that I don’t really pay attention to the outside stuff so I don’t have much of an opinion on it.
 
He will always be my favorite fighter to watch and get beat like a drum. Thanks to TUF we all knew how big of a douche he was before he even fought in the UFC. Watching him get tuned up by Justin was hilarious. He should go fight that tranny chick, that's a fight he could possibly win.
 
He'd still be one of the most entertaining fighters we've ever seen in the sport.
 
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