how would fans perceive Tony without the winning streak?

[aali14]

I thank Tony for being that unlikable, rewatching his fight vs Gaethje is so much more enjoyable

 

[TP4iR]

 

[Royce's Gi]

So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?

Perceive him like Jigsaws brother.

 

[arathans]

OP phrased it that way to make Tony look bad, the kid didn’t die he was in a custody battle for beating his kid.

cool, thanks for the clarification. this completely changes things.

 

[chinarice]

I can just imagine what people would think of Khabib if he wasn't undefeated.

He'd be an afterthought lol

It's crazy what winning over and over can do for you.

 

[Masturbin]

I can just imagine what people would think of Khabib if he wasn't undefeated.

I would argue that the undefeated status is more central to who Khabib is than Tony's winstreak

 

[Dionysian]

He hugged gathje right after though once everything calmed down.

You wouldn't know how these things go when you are stuck to basement all day. Crap thread, posted a bunch of nothing.

Honestly I'd put praising poor sportsmanship up there with the best indicator of being "stuck in a basement" and not competing personally.

I think part of the reason is Tony always brings it. If you talk shit you better not be a running ducking bitch like Conor or Sean O'Malley. If you fight like a madman and eat punches the way Tony does, you get a pass for certain things you say. We all like the "boogey men" of the divisions to talk a bit of smack.

I agree Tony was in the wrong in the Werdum incident. Werdum was chill the whole time and understandably got mad. It was still kind of funny though, so most people are gonna laugh.
The "where's your kid at" incident was also not cool and shows Tony's instability. Overall I don't think I'm making excuses for Tony just because he was successful. Plenty of successful fighters I don't like. I really just think most of your points are not valid. Tony has rarely crossed the line where it was unacceptable. Mostly he's just weird and calls people bitches and fatheads but it's no big deal.

Fair enough / respect the position man

Tony wasn’t mocking someone for “losing” their child, the guy was in a custody battle for probably being a scumbag. War Tony

Yeah I replied to that guy on the first page and told him it was a custody battle.

Anyway, I know nothing about that guy's divorce or whatever the hell happened. I'm guessing you don't either. If so, why speculate? This is kind of my point. Default position for Tony regarding a restraining order is one of understanding/empathy. Default position for a random guy on a reality fight show is he's "probably a scumbag" and beat his kid or some shit.

EDIT: lol the guy not only ignored my correction 2 posts down from his, he waited until someone ELSE said it 40 posts later, then goes back to edit his post to thank that person while ignoring mine/making it seem like I misrepresented things in order to deceive posters. I now just crossed the "ok he's trying to troll" line

Idk I met Tony around 2012 or 13, so admittedly a long time before any of the stuff TS is complaining about, and he was super humble and cool. He just seemed excited that I was supportive of him and knew who he was and he was happy to talk and take time out from his vacation to talk to a fight fan. I liked him ever since, he was really cool to me.

Other than that I don’t really pay attention to the outside stuff so I don’t have much of an opinion on it.

Thanks for the personal insight. Never met the guy. I will admit I really soured on him when the Werdum thing happened. Anyone can lose their cool / fuck up momentarily, but that was such a prolonged/drawn out oozing of negativity / putting everyone and everything down while talking himself up for an extended period of time... so I thought "maybe this is his default behavior." Maybe he had a bad day prior, I don't know, but yeah.

Like I said though, fighting wise I don't miss his fights. Even now.

I can just imagine what people would think of Khabib if he wasn't undefeated.

He'd be an afterthought lol

It's crazy what winning over and over can do for you.

My point wasn't exactly "how much is winning central to a fighter's identity" ... it was more "how much does winning insulate you from fighter bashing." Tony appears, to me, to be an extreme example considering he wasn't undisputed and has a demonstrable track record of unpleasantness, yet gets passes-galore from fans.

 

[Oceanmachine]

So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?

Well it depends

BJ penn is 14-14-2 if you take away the 2 cans he crushed.

BJ also starts street fights with people when he is drunk looking to beat up civilians. And has an ex girlfriend who accuses him of abuse and drug use. He also accusses everyone of steroid use without evidence and spends his days now Fighter bashing Khabib, Edgar and GSP

He also got KO by a fat untrained man in a street fight. Yet Sherdoggers are calling him the GOAT

 

[PrinceOfPain]

For some reason, Tony's never really caught my interest. So, I just didn't know a bunch of those things about him.

Sounds like a really classy guy.

 

[Darko1978]

Could watch him fight all day win/lose or draw.Cant watch more then 10 mins of interview cause i think he has mental problems. So i woud percive him the same as ever. What i cant percive is Conrads fanbase or 5 daily sherdogs threads abaut how great he is....