how would fans perceive Tony without the winning streak?

[Dionysian]

So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?

 

[Sweater of AV]

It wasn't just the streak though, his style and heart play a big part of why he has such a big fanbase.

If he went 50/50 but every fight was a FOTN candidate he would still have quite a few fans.

 

[Jonathan Utah]

People just love seeing sand get thrown in the octagon.

 

[MoneyMcGrabber]

Holy wall of hate.
Tony gets love, you thread won’t.
Deal with it.

 

[Adamant]

He wouldn't be nearly as popular. Winning is huge.

12-0 vs 6-6

At 6-6 he wouldn't have the aura he had.

 

[El Fernas]

He lost me as a fan and he was still on his win streak, he would had turned into some form of Kevin Lee, big game talk, but loses like 50% of his fights.

 

[Kos Fan]

Never liked Tony so my opinion wouldn’t change.

 

[xhaydenx]

Winning is huge, even you're fighting lots of washed up fighters and not elites.

He also gets away with a whole lot of shit because of the 'madman' character he puts on. It let's him get away with being an asshole.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?

What would we think of anyone who’s confident or cocky if all of their success was erased? Imagine someone as intense as khabib whos like 14-20 or something.

You can’t drastically change events and then expect their personality to make sense

 

[Dionysian]

It wasn't just the streak though, his style and heart play a big part of why he has such a big fanbase.

If he went 50/50 but every fight was a FOTN candidate he would still have quite a few fans.

Maybe. Jeremy Stephens has a good amount of high-activity fights too... but spent a few weeks in jail and was universally hated for it. Why the gap?

Holy wall of hate.
Tony gets love, you thread won’t.
Deal with it.

I'll deal with it just fine, as will Tony. Unlike all the fighters I mentioned in the OP who likely have mental issues, Tony has an online defense team because of the streak. Sorry if any of the facts pissed you off.

What would we think of anyone who’s confident or cocky if all of their success was erased? Imagine someone as intense as khabib whos like 14-20 or something.

You can’t drastically change events and then expect their personality to make sense

He's on a losing streak though, so even that has it's limits. In fact a guy acting in contradiction to his reality is usually a chief way to fighter-bash someone. Luke Rockhold being cocky after losing equals Sherdog using the word "delusional" every 2 seconds. Tony on a 3-fight losing streak saying "champ shit only" and bashing all the people in his division doesn't though.

The weird thing about that was Luke was actually undisputed champ too.

 

[Kyler Ruxin]

Most people gave a shit about him because he won. Most people wouldn't have given a shit about him if he went 50/50. His weirdo shit talk was always just background noise.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Maybe. Jeremy Stephens has a good amount of high-activity fights too... but spent a few weeks in jail and was universally hated for it. Why the gap?

I don't recall Jeremy being universally hated when he went to jail. Actually a lot of people were under the impression it was bullshit.

 

[bloodyknuck]

It leaves it all out- is actually crazy and is willing to take a punch to land one- his style is fan friendly- but after this incident it really went downhill-
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2019...n-ufc-restraining-order-mma-domestic-violence

He is the king of cringe- Enter Tony Ferguson is so crazy- he would let the cop off with a warning-

 

[ChinaMMABlog]

Why do we need to perceive him without the winning streak? He actually won all those fights, and did it with immense style.

I personally was at the lunch with Werdum and it all goes back to Tony's issue with Ali, who also managed Khabib and (formerly) RDA. Tony has a problem with Ali and everything Ali said about him, and thus he has a problem with Ali's fighters/

Also, to bring up #6 is completely inappropriate. Tony was suffering some major mental health issues at the time. He and his wife are fine and just had another kid. At the time, she went out of her way to say that Tony was never violent with her or their first son. She filed the restraining order because she was scared for him, not of him.

So I was reading this thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/tony-ferguson-quote.4197300/

... and it got me to thinking about how deeply fan perception is colored by fighting success. Imagine for a moment if Tony never had his win streak... if he had the same fighting style, only he went 50/50 and was eventually cut. Personality exactly the same, to include:

1. Saying "Fuck you, next" to reporters.
2. Sitting next to a top HW having his dinner, methodically disrespecting and insulting him until he finally asks "what the fuck is your problem." As soon as he does, stand up like you're going to fight him. As soon as he responds and stands up as well, say you are a LW and he's a HW and he's picking on you. Have the entire thing recorded on video for 12+ minutes so there is no doubt what happened.
3. Brag about breaking your partner's ribs when they try to help you train.
4. Talk like an arrogant self-help wisdom guru in all your interviews. Don't do it with any irony whatsoever.
5. Have insults like a 6-year-old, like calling someone "tiramisu" or "mcnuggets" more than 30 times like those lines are comedy gold.
6. Have restraining orders from their significant other
7. Taunt someone who lost their child with "where's your kid at" on public TV
8. Get dominated/lose a fight, and then push the other person when he tries to hug you at the end of the fight. Then trash your trainers publicly afterward.
9. Be on a losing streak and call yourself the champ/talk down the entire roster repeatedly. Again, without any comedy/irony at all.

I can't imagine even half those things happening with a random fighter and them not being universally reviled by fans. I never heard Joe Son described as "unique" or "interesting" or "his own kind of crazy" or anything like that. Never heard it about Trujillo, or Volkmann, or anyone else that has overwhelmingly repellent traits. I never heard anyone excuse the behavior of any of the above people, citing them as a symbol of mental health struggles, despite possibly all those guys having issues. So why Tony?

Someone like Joe Son is an extreme example (not successful in fighting + criminal) but clearly the line is somewhere out there where actions in general become excused under the guise of fighting accomplishments. Tony, of course, has a fun fight style (I don't miss his fights win or lose) but I've never seen such an extreme example (a fan favorite who would otherwise be hated by basically anyone who knew him personally). Is it the streak alone? Or maybe a combo of the streak with being wronged by the UFC? What is it that grants Tony a near-unlimited free pass?

 

[Dionysian]

Why do we need to perceive him without the winning streak? He actually won all those fights, and did it with immense style.

I personally was at the lunch with Werdum and it all goes back to Tony's issue with Ali, who also managed Khabib and (formerly) RDA. Tony has a problem with Ali and everything Ali said about him, and thus he has a problem with Ali's fighters/

Also, to bring up #6 is completely inappropriate. Tony was suffering some major mental health issues at the time. He and his wife are fine and just had another kid. At the time, she went out of her way to say that Tony was never violent with her or their first son. She filed the restraining order because she was scared for him, not of him.

I didn't follow what you mean about how the Werdum thing has anything to do with Ali. Ali is never mentioned once during that event. Or even after, right?

Personally #6 isn't a big deal to me. It and #1 at the top for less important IMO. I just brought it up because it is apples and oranges with Tony vs other fighters. Usually that sort of thing is HUGE for fighter PR. Honestly even your defense of it (even if it is true) I could never imagine being made for any other fighter: "she got a restraining order against him because she was scared for him not of him."

I don't recall Jeremy being universally hated when he went to jail. Actually a lot of people were under the impression it was bullshit.

Oh? Maybe I remembered it wrong. I thought plenty bashed him but I'm not certain.

 

[Chappi]

So fighters with winning records get more attention and/or love from fans.
Hmm, it's almost as if the people who watch fights care about fighting, go figure.

 

[ExitLUPin]

He was top 3 P4P most exciting fighters in MMA for many years. When youre that ppl overlook or dont care much about offcage antics.

 

[arathans]

id didnt know he brought up a fighter losing their kid. as a parent, that is totally fucked up and not expectable. thats the sort of shit dana should cut people for. i understand trash talking but seriously, certain things you dont go after and someones dead kid is one of them.

edit: thanks to @The Chosen for pointing out that this wasnt "losing" as in death, but was actually losing custody due to child abuse - which is fair enough and i have no issues with tony talking trash about that sort of thing.

 

[Dionysian]

He was top 3 P4P most exciting fighters in MMA for many years. When youre that ppl overlook or dont care much about offcage antics.

Good point. Maybe prime Jones being similar, but he had a ton of haters. I think Tony was in that sweet spot... top level but not the VERY top which would attract all the hate/critiques.

Plus Jones never had the marketing underdog appeal in his pocket, like Tony did.

id didnt know he brought up a fighter losing their kid. as a parent, that is totally fucked up and not expectable. thats the sort of shit dana should cut people for. i understand trash talking but seriously, certain things you dont go after and someones dead kid is one of them.

Not a dead kid... a kid lost via custody battle I think it was? Still obvious shit behavior but yeah, not quite that extreme.

 

[ChinaMMABlog]

I didn't follow what you mean about how the Werdum thing has anything to do with Ali. Ali is never mentioned once during that event. Or even after, right?

Personally #6 isn't a big deal to me. It and #1 at the top for less important IMO. I just brought it up because it is apples and oranges with Tony vs other fighters. Usually that sort of thing is HUGE for fighter PR. Honestly even your defense of it (even if it is true) I could never imagine being made for any other fighter: "she got a restraining order against him because she was scared for him not of him."


Oh? Maybe I remembered it wrong. I thought plenty bashed him but I'm not certain.

After Werdum left and Tony continued his scrum, he directly mentioned his issue with Ali, and thus Werdum.

"In the report, Tony is described as “not a danger to self or others'" : https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/3/...ing-order-after-multiple-police-calls-to-home

I think you just don't like Tony for some reason.