How often do you watch 'The Critical Drinker' reviews?

[Mike]

The comics industry understood as far back as the early 70s that appealing to one demo forever isn't smart long term. So we got reboots and spinoffs featuring ethnically diverse characters as far back as the X-Men reboot in 74

 

[LEWIS540]

Thats how the British lost their power.
Before they showed up in nice pressed red jackets, uniformed, unlike their teeth.
A show of strength in their posture and glory, mighty ships and what not.

Then the minute they opened their mouth and said things like "Arse", "Knickers" and "fanny", is the minute that Tea went into the harbor and Declarations were written up.

I can see you’re a big historian.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

Because nearly every "legacy" IP is exclusively or nearly exclusively white, usually owing to whites being the only demo that mattered when they were created. That's not the case anymore so when a company reboots say LOTR over and over, every version isn't going to be exclusively white like the original.

Both because advertisers want to appeal to more demos, and because other demos are fans of the property and want to feel involved.

Star Wars and Star Trek had black people, so does the MCU, i guess LOTR might be the only one can think of.Game of Thrones had on black character before the spinoff.

Why would advertisers muck around with the script? If it is a solid legacy IP, they should be happy if it is well written and made. How does seeing the black son or daughter of some rich dude on a tv show make someone feel involved in 2024?

 

[Mike]

Star Wars and Star Trek had black people, so does the MCU, i guess LOTR might be the only one can think of.Game of Thrones had on black character before the spinoff.

Why would advertisers muck around with the script? If it is a solid legacy IP, they should be happy if it is well written and made. How does seeing the black son or daughter of some rich dude on a tv show make someone feel involved in 2024?

The MCU has a lot of minorities due in large part to the reboots in the 70s though.

And it doesn't have anything to do with changing scripts. If they reboot say Spider-Man 20 times it's not going to be the same exact racial makeup in the cast every time. Because they want to maximize profits which means appealing to as many demos as possible. Every character but maybe one or two being the same race doesn't do that.

Like I said comics figured this out ages ago. Spin off that existing popular character into a new persona. Usually without replacing the original. There's been a black and Hispanic Spider-Man, female and Asian hulk etc.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

The MCU has a lot of minorities due in large part to the reboots in the 70s though.

And it doesn't have anything to do with changing scripts. If they reboot say Spider-Man 20 times it's not going to be the same exact racial makeup in the cast every time. Because they want to maximize profits which means appealing to as many demos as possible. Every character but maybe one or two being the same race doesn't do that.

Like I said comics figured this out ages ago. Spin off that existing popular character into a new persona. Usually without replacing the original. There's been a black and Hispanic Spider-Man, female and Asian hulk etc.

You think a good LOTR tv series before Amazon diminished the brand would not do well because it has to many white people?

You do know GOT had 1 black guy in it and it did gangbusters numbers.

Yes comics, listen to the comics people about movies because...?

 

[Mike]

You think a good LOTR tv series before Amazon diminished the brand would not do well because it has to many white people?

You do know GOT had 1 black guy in it and it did gangbusters numbers.

Yes comics, listen to the comics people about movies because...?

I think the people making the shows and movies will make the cast more diverse either way in the hopes that makes it sell better. That's really all it's about and I don't get what's confusing about that to people. The people that own the properties that are making the shows and movies are making the decision to diversify.

And for the comics I was just pointing out the movies are diverse because the comics characters themselves are diverse. Because back in the 60s and 70s when most characters were white they began to diversify their settings to attract a wider audience.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I think the people making the shows and movies will make the cast more diverse either way in the hopes that makes it sell better. That's really all it's about and I don't get what's confusing about that to people. The people that own the properties that are making the shows and movies are making the decision to diversify.

And for the comics I was just pointing out the movies are diverse because the comics characters themselves are diverse. Because back in the 60s and 70s when most characters were white they began to diversify their settings to attract a wider audience.

You think that but did not make a case for it. It is just about that? They can make the decision and people can criticize it like they criticized the original XFL.

That is not what my post was about.

 

[Mike]

You think that but did not make a case for it. It is just about that? They can make the decision and people can criticize it like they criticized the original XFL.

That is not what my post was about.

I just don't understand what people are upset about or why. It's not like people are petitioning to change existing ips to piss people off. Generally the show runners and owners of the ips are doing that.

Am I supposed to be upset that an existing character was changed? Even though this is absolutely normal in
film, adapting other media to film, and in other fictional media? Why is it "wrong" in one particular case and fine in all these others? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and the people upset about it always seem to be ignorant that this stuff is incredibly common. The only thing that's changed is sometimes it's a previously white role that is changed now.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

People are upset about how the new BMWs look. What if the ip holders are doing it? Who cares? They can be wrong.

Who is saying you are supposed to even care one way or another? The current atmosphere is a deviation from every previous era in motion picture making. Every franchise is different, so the reactions are different. That is not the only thing that changes, far from it.

 

[Mike]

People are upset about how the new BMWs look. What if the ip holders are doing it? Who cares? They can be wrong.

Who is saying you are supposed to even care one way or another? The current atmosphere is a deviation from every previous era in motion picture making. Every franchise is different, so the reactions are different. That is not the only thing that changes, far from it.

It sure seems like the people upset about this feel like everyone should be upset too. I don't really care too much. I'm a minority but I don't personally care if fictional characters look like me. For example the black Miles Morales spiderman isn't interesting to me at all despite being a huge spiderman fan since I was little and being mixed.

With most things, I want the original version I'm used to. But I also don't care that there's a black Spider-Man, a Hispanic one, several female versions, etc. Does nothing for me either way.

Maybe it gets a young black or Hispanic child to pick up a Spider-Man comic because now there's a Spider-Man that looks like him. That's pretty clearly what the advertisers are hoping for.

Sometimes it works out. The X-Men team introduced in the 70s that included storm, colossus, wolverine, etc. is now seen as one of the most iconic versions.

OTOH the clone of Spider-Man that was introduced in the 90s was so reviled they had to eventually close the arc and kill him off after about 5 or 6 years of trying to get fans to warm up to him.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

It sure seems like the people upset about this feel like everyone should be upset too. I don't really care too much. I'm a minority but I don't personally care if fictional characters look like me. For example the black miles Morales spiderman isn't interesting to me at all despite being a huge spiderman fan since I was little.

With most things, I want the original version I'm used to. But I also don't care that there's a black Spider-Man, a Hispanic one, several female versions, etc. Does nothing for me.

Maybe it gets a young black child to pick up a Spider-Man comic because now there's a Spider-Man that looks like him. That's pretty clearly what the advertisers are hoping for.

Sometimes it works out. The X-Men team introduced in the 70s that included storm, colossus, wolverine, etc. is now seen as one of the most iconic versions.

OTOH the clone of Spider-Man that was introduced in the 90s was so reviled they had to eventually close the arc and kill him off after about 5 or 6 years of trying to get fans to warm up to him.

You are sure? Okay, no reasoning given, but okay.

You think advertisers have 5 year plans like the Soviet union x4?

And you know it was this giant mega plan? Even if it was comics is a tiny irrelevant industry right now

.

 

[SuperAlly]

Literally never. I have no interest in listening to some dogshit reactionary ree about some Netflix show that showed a gay couple holding hands for two seconds or whatever.

"I don't know what he says or thinks. But I know I don't like it."

 

[SuperAlly]

Star Wars and Star Trek had black people, so does the MCU, i guess LOTR might be the only one can think of.Game of Thrones had on black character before the spinoff.

Why would advertisers muck around with the script? If it is a solid legacy IP, they should be happy if it is well written and made. How does seeing the black son or daughter of some rich dude on a tv show make someone feel involved in 2024?

I've been watching a tonne of Korean stuff the past few years

Because they don't care about cramming in woke political type shite and just concentrate on making good tv/movies

I don't see any white guys from the UK in these shows

Still fucking good fun to watch though

 

[SuperAlly]

I think the people making the shows and movies will make the cast more diverse either way in the hopes that makes it sell better. That's really all it's about and I don't get what's confusing about that to people. The people that own the properties that are making the shows and movies are making the decision to diversify.

And for the comics I was just pointing out the movies are diverse because the comics characters themselves are diverse. Because back in the 60s and 70s when most characters were white they began to diversify their settings to attract a wider audience.

Being diverse for diversity's sake, often at the expense of quality of the writing, plot, etc is producing inferior products and turning more people (black, white, pink, green) off of shows.

Maybe they should think of a new strategy

 

[SuperAlly]

It sure seems like the people upset about this feel like everyone should be upset too. I don't really care too much. I'm a minority but I don't personally care if fictional characters look like me. For example the black Miles Morales spiderman isn't interesting to me at all despite being a huge spiderman fan since I was little and being mixed.

With most things, I want the original version I'm used to. But I also don't care that there's a black Spider-Man, a Hispanic one, several female versions, etc. Does nothing for me either way.

Maybe it gets a young black or Hispanic child to pick up a Spider-Man comic because now there's a Spider-Man that looks like him. That's pretty clearly what the advertisers are hoping for.

Sometimes it works out. The X-Men team introduced in the 70s that included storm, colossus, wolverine, etc. is now seen as one of the most iconic versions.

OTOH the clone of Spider-Man that was introduced in the 90s was so reviled they had to eventually close the arc and kill him off after about 5 or 6 years of trying to get fans to warm up to him.

In general many of your points are reasonable

Feels like a long time since they made a Marvel or star wars shows geared towards the original audience that made it hugely successful

That doesn't mean making everything white and straight

Put diverse people in. Just don't obnoxiously beat everyone over the head with it and make it the only or main selling point of the product whilst forgetting to invest any of that same time and energy in making the product good. Go the Andor route and not the Acolyte or Agatha all along route

 

[SuperAlly]

I'm a minority but I don't personally care if fictional characters look like me. For example the black Miles Morales spiderman isn't interesting to me at all despite being a huge spiderman fan since I was little and being mixed.

With most things, I want the original version I'm used to. But I also don't care that there's a black Spider-Man, a Hispanic one, several female versions, etc. Does nothing for me either way.

In fact. Your own views shows the stupidity and futility of just making existing characters black, Asian etc.

Even the people they are targeting with this stuff aren't interested

Maybe just make good shows. Create new characters who are "minorities"

Probably be more successful

 

[Mike]

In fact. Your own views shows the stupidity and futility of just making existing characters black, Asian etc.

Even the people they are targeting with this stuff aren't interested

Maybe just make good shows. Create new characters who are "minorities"

Probably be more successful

Ok but we're left in the same spot. The people that own LOTR for example are going to reboot and spin off that shit as many times as they can. LOTR was written a long ass time ago. All the protagonists are white.

They aren't going to continue to reboot it and leave everyone white because they want to pander to minorities too. They also aren't going to make a "colored folks only" LOTR either because we no longer live in a political climate where that's acceptable.

 

[Mike]

In general many of your points are reasonable

Feels like a long time since they made a Marvel or star wars shows geared towards the original audience that made it hugely successful

That doesn't mean making everything white and straight

Put diverse people in. Just don't obnoxiously beat everyone over the head with it and make it the only or main selling point of the product whilst forgetting to invest any of that same time and energy in making the product good. Go the Andor route and not the Acolyte or Agatha all along route

Well I've got no dog in this fight. Some people DO care very much about things like representation in fictional properties but I'm just not one of them. Any attempt to sell me the "black version" of something comes off as pandering and insulting.

The marvel stuff is another area where people are complaining about characters that are like 40 or 50 years old in many cases. She hulk has been around since the '70s but they announced the she hulk show and some people were upset because.... Why?

I'm genuinely not sure. Maybe they don't follow comics so are unaware that she hulk isn't some new invention to pander to women. That character is older than most posters here lol. Hell the Miles Morales spiderman is one of the "newer" reboots and that character came out in 2011.

 

[Mike]

Agatha is a hella old character too the only thing they changed is not making her an old bag.

 

[SuperAlly]

Ok but we're left in the same spot. The people that own LOTR for example are going to reboot and spin off that shit as many times as they can. LOTR was written a long ass time ago. All the protagonists are white.

They aren't going to continue to reboot it and leave everyone white because they want to pander to minorities too. They also aren't going to make a "colored folks only" LOTR either because we no longer live in a political climate where that's acceptable.

I don’t think we’re that far apart, or you are as crazy as some on here

Go ahead, make LoTR etc with whatever characters you want

Why make Galadriel a warrior girl boss if she was more of a queen who dominated through smarts and politics. Don’t make a show that’s pretty crap but gaslight it’s great by going on a mad media tour of how gay or other irrelevant characteristic it is.

Do the Andor, first season of HoD route. Make whatever show you want. Put whatever people you want in it. Don’t make social justice politics the only selling point of your show.

You’ll do just fine.

It’s not just who is in the show. It’s how you approach who is in the show and why.