Social How many times has socialism failed?

You know what we also had in Yugoslavia? We had lines to buy bread.

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We also had communist system. We didn't have any freedom of speech. We had censorship in media, music, art and literature. We had shitty cars cause we couldn't buy foreign cars (except the rich members of communist party). We had political and social system plagued with nepotism and favoritism. We had factories that were only generating financial losses.

We had enormous foreign debt. Why was debt so huge? Because all of that that you mentioned that Yugoslavia had was financed with the huge loans from the western (capitalist) countries. And when we couldn't pay those loans anymore everything went to shit.

And don't give me that crap that western forces destroyed Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was nothing but the artificial creation that was destined to fall because of the unsustainable system and many other factors.
and what do you have now? your youth is fleeing and you serve eu-autocrats.
they have you by your balls with their loans.
the state failed because separatism was sponsored and pushed.
 
and what do you have now? your youth is fleeing and you serve eu-autocrats.
they have you by your balls with their loans.
the state failed because separatism was sponsored and pushed.

What do I have now? I have more than my parents ever had in that system. My parents have more than they had then. I have more than what ordinary worker ever had. I live good, solid life without being a part of an elite.

And yes, our youth are unfortunately fleeing to work and live somewhere else.

Some of them really don't have another choice and they are forced to go to Germany, Ireland or some other country.

The other ones are the lazy assholes who think that this world owes them something. Some of them think that being a waiter or mechanic is underneath them and that something better is waiting for them somewhere else and yet they don't have any skills. Some of them have the degree in some of the liberal sciences or some other similar bullshit college and they can't find the job because there is no need for them in the real sector. Many of them are now working as a waiters in Ireland, sharing the rooms with 3 other strangers cause they didn't want to do that same work in their own home country.

And you know why EU have as by our balls with those loans? Because from our independence till now we had a politicians and ruling parties that are nothing more than the remains ( or ideological heirs ) of the former socialist system that never knew how to run the state in the first place. And they are the reason that young people are fleeing our country.
 
The nordic model seems to work pretty well.
Nordic socialism isn't socialism. It has free markets and is subsidized by their profits. It has redistribution policies that are only worthwhile recently. They have no long term plan. It's placating until they have a real financial crisis.
 
@BjPenn2017

When the first response from a devout pro-Communist (someone who has named himself in honor of the Menshevik-turned-Bolshevik Leon Trotsky) is a long-winded, preemptive quibble, "Like, how do we define socialism, bro?" and the first example in the thread of "socialist" countries cited that have been successful are all foundational, capitalist systems, I would hope that you can glean your question has been answered.

It fails every time. It's only a matter of time.

The "Nordic model", similar to "State Capitalism", similar to "Social Democracy", and also somewhat but less so to "Third Way" thinking, are all more reasonable than "Socialism", "Marxism-Leninism", "Communism", ", "Democratic Socialism", "Social Anarchism", "Anarcho-Syndicalism", or any other devoted forms of true state or collective socialism. None of the former are socialist. They are capitalist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

Don't be fooled. Welfare states will never work outside cloistered societies that are themselves already dependent on indirect free-market subsidy & networking. In the abstract, I like Blair's Third Way the best of all these more socialized European notions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

We already know that any model will optimally be a hybrid of both. We also know that all the most optimal models use a free market, and are therefore capitalist, as their basis. The less free that foundation becomes the more tenuous with each revision; quite similar to abridged freedoms of the individual. People can't be free to go wherever they want, do whatever they want, own whatever they want...but the closer you stay to that while sensibly addressing the most problematic freedoms harming and threatening the greater good of other free individuals the better.

Capitalism works. Socialism doesn't. We've had 100 years of data, now, and those results are as clear as the Chinese day isn't.

Thanks my man. You usually manage to make sense of alot of things on here for me. I do have a question though, mainly my original one, do you know how many societies have failed due to socialism?
 
Thanks my man. You usually manage to make sense of alot of things on here for me. I do have a question though, mainly my original one, do you know how many societies have failed due to socialism?
Dozens. From the USSR (go ahead and count all the nations that splintered off it) to East Germany to Cambodia to Venezuela to Ethiopia to the Congo to Somalia to Zimbabwe to Argentina. The list goes on and on. Essentially everywhere it has ever been tried. It's not a redneck exaggeration.

Then there are the states that survive if you want to consider that a success: North Korea and Cuba come to mind. Countries that imprison their own citizens. I think the first speaks for itself, and remains the perfect test condition imaginable between socialism and capitalism; you had the same people, the same land within the same region, the same time period in history, etc, and look at South Korean metrics vs. North Korean metrics for economic and social well-being. Per the latter, not sure how old you are, but the case of Elian Gonzalez gripped the nation when I was in school during Clinton's second term:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elián_González
When people are trying to cross hundreds of miles of open sea on an inflatable inner tube just for the chance to be an illegal immigrant (or claim asylum)...I think you can tell how well things are really going.

Take a look at Vietnam. They have maintained their hard-nosed communist defiance. The enjoy a glorious 159th place in terms of GDP per capita, globally. Laos is right behind them. Why do you think we have so many Hmong immigrants to this day in the USA who are eager to trim marijuana on the black market (the shit end of that industry's stick) just to have work? Unbelievably industrious people. Only a system as functionally retarded as communism (or monarchy) could hold them back.

Remember Gaddafi in Libya? He was a socialist. Things are going great over there, I hear.

China is probably the most successful "Marxist-Leninist" country ever, and that's because in many ways it isn't a socialist economy, but that's how it started, and look where that has landed them in terms of civil freedoms. They have a state-run media. They have a President-for-life. They have concentration internment camps. They have artists, scientists, and even international police organization executives who disappear without a word. They have an intranet, not an internet. They have ghost cities. They have everyday air quality that is worse than the worst single days on record here, locally, in California this past summer, when we experienced the worst wildfires in our history. All that they've paid, and they haven't purchased true freedom.

Take a look at Estonia. Look at how that country governs itself. Look at how they treat any threat of return of socialism following what the Reds did to them. It's enlightening.
 
why wouldnt you want more?
Nothing wrong with wanting but it is better to have enough and yearn than to live in a state of danger because getting unneeded desires met created monsters. Plus if you give a shit about anyone other than yourself you would put together that having more stuff you don't need is like taking the food out of their children's mouths.
Hyperbole, most of the country is not a dangerous shit hole - just curious, what would your chances of being murdered in the US be? Assaulted? Robbed?

Again, i have said that socialized spending nations are better for the poor -- but im talking about higher income professionals -- there are reasons that people flock the US hubs
Most people I know, and some of them are quite wealthy, have been either robbed or assaulted and if not them it has happened to multiple people they are close to.

It is not just that though their are myriad ways the stress of being in debt and being a few bad decisions away from being on skid row or your kids not having a future affects everyone at all times. You do not understand this feeling because you are sheltered from it.
 
Trump's language during the campaign was unsettling. At times, it still is. Haven't seen the policy to match.

Meanwhile, while the "Democracy Dies in Darkness" #resist leftism brigade scrutinizes every infinitesimally threatening linguistic implication of possible future encroachment on freedom, here is what is happening in the most financially powerful socialist nation on earth:
https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/148456837/

Socialism. Been tried plenty times. Failed every time.
 
Trump's language during the campaign was unsettling. At times, it still is. Haven't seen the policy to match.

Meanwhile, while the "Democracy Dies in Darkness" #resist leftism brigade scrutinizes every infinitesimally threatening linguistic implication of possible future encroachment on freedom, here is what is happening in the most financially powerful socialist nation on earth:
https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/148456837/

Socialism. Been tried plenty times. Failed every time.
dude, china was never a truly socialist country ever. They just modernized with a regime change is all and they used Marxist rhetoric.

In any case the premise of the Marxist style socialism is that it MUST pass through capitalism in order to build the infrastructure. The closest their is to that is common wealth countries and western Europe.
 
dude, china was never a truly socialist country ever.
That this will be mindlessly repeated by willfully stupid socialists is the only thing more certain than the failure of socialism itself.
 
That this will be mindlessly repeated by willfully stupid socialists is the only thing more certain than the failure of socialism itself.
I really think you will find that 'socialists' will probably agree with you that despotic countries are awful and that capitalism, while wasteful, is the most adaptable ingenious economic growth model in the history of humanity.
 
Well, it's a socialist one, now, and has been for many decades.
You insist that is socialism, so ok, then should we rename what it is we are talking about because what we are talking about is certainly not what china is!

What most socialists are talking about are programs that can exist within capitalism that make it run smoother with a more equitable society which equates to less crime and a higher overall quality of life.

Communism is something else. It is a sustainability model that comes after capitalism which is a growth model.
 
Post #185 already cut off this retreat. Nonetheless, must be an andrenaline junkie's dream being a socialist-- living on the razor's edge:

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_329135.jpg
 
Dozens. From the USSR (go ahead and count all the nations that splintered off it) to East Germany to Cambodia to Venezuela to Ethiopia to the Congo to Somalia to Zimbabwe to Argentina. The list goes on and on. Essentially everywhere it has ever been tried. It's not a redneck exaggeration.

Then there are the states that survive if you want to consider that a success: North Korea and Cuba come to mind. Countries that imprison their own citizens. I think the first speaks for itself, and remains the perfect test condition imaginable between socialism and capitalism; you had the same people, the same land within the same region, the same time period in history, etc, and look at South Korean metrics vs. North Korean metrics for economic and social well-being. Per the latter, not sure how old you are, but the case of Elian Gonzalez gripped the nation when I was in school during Clinton's second term:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elián_González
When people are trying to cross hundreds of miles of open sea on an inflatable inner tube just for the chance to be an illegal immigrant (or claim asylum)...I think you can tell how well things are really going.

Take a look at Vietnam. They have maintained their hard-nosed communist defiance. The enjoy a glorious 159th place in terms of GDP per capita, globally. Laos is right behind them. Why do you think we have so many Hmong immigrants to this day in the USA who are eager to trim marijuana on the black market (the shit end of that industry's stick) just to have work? Unbelievably industrious people. Only a system as functionally retarded as communism (or monarchy) could hold them back.

Remember Gaddafi in Libya? He was a socialist. Things are going great over there, I hear.

China is probably the most successful "Marxist-Leninist" country ever, and that's because in many ways it isn't a socialist economy, but that's how it started, and look where that has landed them in terms of civil freedoms. They have a state-run media. They have a President-for-life. They have concentration internment camps. They have artists, scientists, and even international police organization executives who disappear without a word. They have an intranet, not an internet. They have ghost cities. They have everyday air quality that is worse than the worst single days on record here, locally, in California this past summer, when we experienced the worst wildfires in our history. All that they've paid, and they haven't purchased true freedom.

Take a look at Estonia. Look at how that country governs itself. Look at how they treat any threat of return of socialism following what the Reds did to them. It's enlightening.
oddly enough, your examples are all countries deliberately fucked over by America. So was it their economic model that fucked them over or was it their political alignment. Because soon as socialism started showing up on THIS side of the NATO alliance, it seems to work super well. But im sure thats coincidence. Cuba and China have the same model, but one is a trade partner and the other is a blockaded pariah for dick measuring reasons. Guess which one did well economically.
 
oddly enough, your examples are all countries deliberately fucked over by America. So was it their economic model that fucked them over or was it their political alignment. Because soon as socialism started showing up on THIS side of the NATO alliance, it seems to work super well. But im sure thats coincidence. Cuba and China have the same model, but one is a trade partner and the other is a blockaded pariah for dick measuring reasons. Guess which one did well economically.
LOL, as predictable as "socialism has never been tried". No, bud...

its-your-fault.jpg
 
LOL, as predictable as "socialism has never been tried". No, bud...

its-your-fault.jpg
which is oddly the exact opposite of what i said. Socialism has totally been tried, and every time its been tried in a country America is cool with, it works super well.
 
And has it ever succeeded on a large scale? I only ever here of it failing and I can't find a clear number of how many have failed throughout history I know of Venezuela and Cuba I think started off as socialist before they became communist
Pretty much every time.
 
LOL, as predictable as "socialism has never been tried". No, bud...

its-your-fault.jpg
socialism is alive and well in common wealth countries and western Europe.

Communism was attempted several times and hasn't really worked because they tried to bypass capitalism.
 

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