How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

[MMAK]

I don't know about the best chin ever. He was good at avoiding damage.
If you rewatch the Lewis fight, he may have been slightly ahead on points, but it was closer than you think. Vitali was getting fucked up. Lewis would have found that chin pretty soon, as a couple more shots to that eye would have left him blind and leaking. And it WAS Lewis's last fight.
I think he's probably the HW goat. Definitely the best of his era, and his era was definitely the strongest in HW history. The 70s was strong too. Ali was the best. But the 2nd best of the 70s (Frazier or Foreman) wasn't as good as the second best of the 90s (I'm thinking Bowe, Holyfield, or Tyson). It's all hypothetical....
Anyway, it's good to discuss it with someone that is thinking about it rationally.

Lewis was getting tired and Vitali was pushing him around the ring. It's very possible that Lennox was about to gas and get ko'd.

 

[Epsteins Guard]

Especially knowing what I know now about what was really going on in Pride for a very long time combined with the fighting abilities Fedor showed outside of Pride, I think under fair fight conditions Dan Henderson, Anderson Silva, Randy Couture and probably a lot of other fighters beat Fedor.

Anderson Silva was in Pride.

He got tapped out by such luminaries as Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan.

But you think he would have beat the HW champ?

That's not delusional at all lmao

 

[Cartiac]

Anderson Silva was in Pride.

He got tapped out by such luminaries as Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan.

But you think he would have beat the HW champ?

That's not delusional at all lmao

The answer is yes. You don't know shit about Pride bro. Pride was literally started as a professional wrestling organization with the differentiation that the fighting would be more real than WWF, but the outcomes equally as scripted and fixed. That is why it was so f'n entertaining, because it was specifically crafted that way and we know it was controlled by Yakuza that informed fighters if they valued their life or that of their family they would honor the fight outcomes that were expected I would appreciate if someone could show me statements otherwise but I don't think Pride ever even claimed to be anything other than what it was.

There is also a very distinct pattern of dominant Pride fighters not having near the same level of success in other organizations after it was dissolved despite claims of having such a superior level of competition.

 

[Chayanne]

Fedor prime vs Jones Prime
Fedor wins

 

[Hog-train]

Fedor is kind of like Mike Tyson in his prime - in that you're not saying he's elite only because of who he beat, but HOW he beat people.

He just utterly dominated with explosive power and speed. Power puncher with hand speed still not surpassed by any HW fighter and also dominant ground and pound and slick submissions.

Name me one HW that is more explosive.

 

[moreorless87]

Anderson Silva was in Pride.

He got tapped out by such luminaries as Daiju Takase and Ryo Chonan.

But you think he would have beat the HW champ?

That's not delusional at all lmao

I mean Anderson even at HW I thin would always have upset potential but really stylistically thats not a good fight for him IMHO, even standing I think Fedor's power would be a big issue for him but on the ground his defensive guard would likely get him pulped.

 

[NenadRS]

I mean Anderson even at HW I thin would always have upset potential but really stylistically thats not a good fight for him IMHO, even standing I think Fedor's power would be a big issue for him but on the ground his defensive guard would likely get him pulped.

Age and prime are important, just look at his peak performances, hard to find fighter like that.

Also for comparison to Jones his first loss was at the age of 33/34, on his 34th fight.

Jones left LHW at the age of 32, 28th fights, he had his tough fights with Santos/Reyes (and lost to Reyes on points). So he played safe, similar to GSP, left early.

All these fighters were amazing in prime, hard to compare them. But consider that he never failed drug test, looked natural, declined naturally and kept fighting till the very end when he had nothing more to give, that is for respect too, till the age of 46.

 

[fica]

Here's how I always look at Fedor's "padded" record.

Top fighters nowaday fight 1-3 times a year against quality opponents.

Fedor fought at least 1-3 times a year against quality opponents, with some cans added on top of that.

The second one is more impressive, since at HW even some random can could knock you out with 1 lucky punch.

i mean guy fought bigger guys then him there were no weight class and they fough in week more fights then some in whole year

 

[Fedorgasm]

I think Bigfoot ended Fedor's prime.

Werdum beat prime Fedor, so he deserves all the credit in the world.

But TRT Bigfoot was a monster, and he gave Fedor a serious beating. As they say, it ain't the age, it's the mileage. Well Bigfoot probably put 5 years of mileage on Fedor's brain, because after that fight, he was like Chuck Liddell at the end of his career. Just tap him in the face and the lights go out.

So Werdum deserves credit, Bigfoot less so IMO, because he was only good on the juice.

Hendo, Bader, and Mitrione all beat Fedor after he has CTE so definitely not in his prime

 

[Lee Danger]

Fedor is kind of like Mike Tyson in his prime - in that you're not saying he's elite only because of who he beat, but HOW he beat people.

He just utterly dominated with explosive power and speed. Power puncher with hand speed still not surpassed by any HW fighter and also dominant ground and pound and slick submissions.

Name me one HW that is more explosive.

Randleman.
But i agree with all you've said here.

 

[Lee Danger]

I think Bigfoot ended Fedor's prime.

Werdum beat prime Fedor, so he deserves all the credit in the world.

But TRT Bigfoot was a monster, and he gave Fedor a serious beating. As they say, it ain't the age, it's the mileage. Well Bigfoot probably put 5 years of mileage on Fedor's brain, because after that fight, he was like Chuck Liddell at the end of his career. Just tap him in the face and the lights go out.

So Werdum deserves credit, Bigfoot less so IMO, because he was only good on the juice.

Hendo, Bader, and Mitrione all beat Fedor after he has CTE so definitely not in his prime

If memory serves me right Fedor won the first round then threw Bigfoot on top of him very early in the second round and after almost 5 minutes of gnp he was exausted and done.

That takedown was the Fedor's equivalent of the Weidman's spinning kick versus Rockhold: a single move that ended changing a lot more than a single round.

 

[NenadRS]

If memory serves me right Fedor won the first round then threw Bigfoot on top of him very early in the second round and after almost 5 minutes of gnp he was exausted and done.

That takedown was the Fedor's equivalent of the Weidman's spinning kick versus Rockhold: a single move that ended changing a lot more than a single round.

Yes, that fight was hard to watch, what Fedor survived, he took crazy amount of damage. His timing was so off, he was missing so many punches in the first round. Who knows what would have happened in 3rd round without doctor stoppage between rounds. Both were very exhausted.

Bigfoot was weird during that time, easily knocked out by DC few times in 2 minutes, and later had crazy war with Hunt and eating all Hunt's power shots like it is nothing.

 

[Epsteins Guard]

The answer is yes. You don't know shit about Pride bro. Pride was literally started as a professional wrestling organization with the differentiation that the fighting would be more real than WWF, but the outcomes equally as scripted and fixed. That is why it was so f'n entertaining, because it was specifically crafted that way and we know it was controlled by Yakuza that informed fighters if they valued their life or that of their family they would honor the fight outcomes that were expected I would appreciate if someone could show me statements otherwise but I don't think Pride ever even claimed to be anything other than what it was.

There is also a very distinct pattern of dominant Pride fighters not having near the same level of success in other organizations after it was dissolved despite claims of having such a superior level of competition.

Oh, so Pride had no legit fights because it was owned by gangsters that also owned pro wrestling?

Well maybe you should look up a little bit about the Fertitta's history. Oh, and by the way, the WWF and UFC are owned by the same company. A former WWF star was even the UFC HW champion.

I guess the UFC is all fake, bro. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Cartiac]

Oh, so Pride had no legit fights because it was owned by gangsters that also owned pro wrestling?

Well maybe you should look up a little bit about the Fertitta's history. Oh, and by the way, the WWF and UFC are owned by the same company. A former WWF star was even the UFC HW champion.

I guess the UFC is all fake, bro. Sorry to burst your bubble.

So not only do you not know shit about Pride you don't know shit about UFC, WWE, or business at all. Legendary fighters including Mark Coleman have admitted Pride was fake but they did what they had to do to pay the bills. As I said, I don't know that Pride ever even presented themselves as anything other than entertainment, they did exactly what they said, the fighting was real, the outcomes were predetermined. There maybe could have been some legit fights but we do not have any evidence of that and it doesn't make much sense considering we do know they had fixed outcome fights.

Oh and by the way UFC absolutely must conduct 100% real fights because they are a public company bound by law to do so.

 

[Epsteins Guard]

Oh, so Pride had no legit fights because it was owned by gangsters that also owned pro wrestling?

Well maybe you should look up a little bit about the Fertitta's history. Oh, and by the way, the WWF and UFC are owned by the same company. A former WWF star was even the UFC HW champion.

I guess the UFC is all fake, bro. Sorry to burst your bubble.

So not only do you not know shit about Pride you don't know shit about UFC, WWE, or business at all. Legendary fighters including Mark Coleman have admitted Pride was fake but they did what they had to do to pay the bills. As I said, I don't know that Pride ever even presented themselves as anything other than entertainment, they did exactly what they said, the fighting was real, the outcomes were predetermined. There maybe could have been some legit fights but we do not have any evidence of that and it doesn't make much sense considering we do know they had fixed outcome fights.

Oh and by the way UFC absolutely must conduct 100% real fights because they are a public company bound by law to do so.

This is one of the dumbest fucking takes I've seen on Sherdog. Congratulations on being able to type with a clearly non-existent fucking brain.

So Chuck Liddell was throwing fights?
Dan Henderson was throwing fights?
Anderson Silva was throwing fights?
Rampage was throwing fights when he let Wanderlei knee him in the face 50 times in a row?

I guess Dana White must be a fight fixer..... didn't he arrange for Chuck Liddell to fight in Pride? I guess the UFC must be fight fixing too.. or did Dana just do it when he was in Japan?

SAKURABA, the biggest star in Japan, was throwing the fights when they let him fight Wanderlei four times hoping he'd pull off an upset but instead getting killed everytime?


See what makes you completely fucking devoid of any brainpower at all is that you can't understand that it started off as pro wrestling and then became more MMA, you don't even care to understand the nuance or history of any of it because you would just rather drool on yourself the entire "hurr durr but Coleman durr hurr says". If Mark Coleman threw a fight, or signed up for a pro wrestling fight, that's on him, that doesn't mean every single fighter in the organization was faking fights for almost a decade. You'd literally have to be Forrest Gump levels of fucking stupid to believe this. Congrats on being that guy.

 

[Hog-train]

Randleman.
But i agree with all you've said here.

Good choice. However, I don't feel Randleman's punching was as explosive or dynamic. His wrestling was certainly explosive though.

 

[Felya]

I think Bigfoot ended Fedor's prime.

Werdum beat prime Fedor, so he deserves all the credit in the world.

But TRT Bigfoot was a monster, and he gave Fedor a serious beating. As they say, it ain't the age, it's the mileage. Well Bigfoot probably put 5 years of mileage on Fedor's brain, because after that fight, he was like Chuck Liddell at the end of his career. Just tap him in the face and the lights go out.

So Werdum deserves credit, Bigfoot less so IMO, because he was only good on the juice.

Hendo, Bader, and Mitrione all beat Fedor after he has CTE so definitely not in his prime

Fedor's prime ended way before that. He was slipping in the Brett Rogers fight.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Fedor's prime ended way before that. He was slipping in the Brett Rogers fight.

I dunno, it's not like Rogers was kicking his ass or anything. It looked pretty even.

Lots of dudes put up a good fight vs Fedor before they eventually lost. Fujita, Randleman, Crocop...

 

[mister piscadinha]

Fedor Emilianenko tier list:

Better than Fedor: Anderson, Jones, Khabib, Makhachev, Topuria, GSP, Volkanovski, Chimaev, Cain, DC, Conor, Demetrious, Aspinal

Same level than Fedor: Miocic, Holloway, Adesanya, Whittaker, Cejudo, BJ, Romero, Gustafsson, Rumble, Poatan, Ngannou

Inferior but close to Fedor Level: Liddel, Machida, Shogun, Charles, Aldo , Cruz, Yan, Merab, TJ, Cigano, Poirier

worst post i've ever seen

 

[mattemate]

Lewis was getting tired and Vitali was pushing him around the ring. It's very possible that Lennox was about to gas and get ko'd.

Lewis only lost by getting caught by big hitters when he got lazy. He never gassed. Vitali's eye was a bigger danger to vitali than Lewis's gas tank was to Lewis.