How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

dipstickjimmy said:
Did he though? 1-3 per year against quality plus a few cans?
So some years he fought 4-5 times with 3 being top quality?
2000 he had his first 5 fights. 2001 he had 5 fights.
2002 he had 3 and 2003 he had 5. 2004 he had 4.

During his first 5 years he fought 22 fights but that was the tournament era and most were cans. Big Nog x3, Randleman, Coleman & Arona that's 4 top level opponents. Babalu and Gary Goodridge aren't top opponents.

2005- 3 fights with 2 cans and one top level in Cro Cop
2006- 2 fights Coleman and Mark Hunt (is that 2 top level or was Hunt a can/ just a kickboxer)
2007- 2 fights MW Linland and Freakshow HMC
2008- 1 fight with Big Timmy
2009- Arlovski and Brett Rogers (is that 1 top 1 can)

10 fights and 5 years of is 10 year unbeaten streak did not include more then 1 fight with a "Top Level" HW per year. He is still pretty GOATy as a HW but Stipe with a 20-4 record has far more high level wins and lost only 4 times and has wins over all but the Struve loss. He would likely have avenged that one as well had Struve ever gotten near the level Stipe rose to after that fight.

IMO Stipe > Fedor at HW.
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This is the truth.

Fedor's competition was subpar especially for someone who people say is the goat.

I would rank many fighters before Fedor


Gsp
Anderson
Mm
Aldo
DC
Jones
Hendo
Izzy
Poatan


Fedor and his record is not aging well with all respect
 
Leon Edwards said:
Stacked does not mean good. Could any of those guys beat Jones? Or stipe? Or poatan? Or even DC?

Fedor was fighting cans in pride. Hong man choi
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"Stacked does not mean good"

Yes that is literally what that means. It means the talent pool was deep.

We have never seen Poatan fight at heavyweight. It is fucking insane of you to assume a 0-0 fighter at heavyweight would obviously beat every pride heavyweight.

You're asking me if prime Josh Barnett, prime Big Nog, prime Werdum, prime Cro Cop, prime Randleman, prime Kharitonov, prime Hunt, prime Schilt, prime Aleksander Emelianenko, prime Sapp, prime Rizzo, prime Ricco, prime Mark Kerr, prime Coleman and prime Igor could beat three light heavyweights and Stipe????? Yes abso fucking lutely they could. Are you kidding me? DC & Jones could clear a lot of that list. That entire list most likely beats Poatan besides Igor and Cro Cop.

Prime Big Nog is the second greatest all time heavyweight. He cleans out your entire list. Jon Jones has one fucking fight at heavyweight against a guy with no grappling. Prime Mirko and Big Nog would have absolutely murdered Jon Jones. Half of that list would have a size and grappling advantage over Jones and would have dominated him.

This was a supremely stupid question. Stipe in his prime would have been middle of the road in prides heavyweight division. Poatan has 0 heavyweight fights. Jon Jones has one heavyweight fight against a dude with no grappling.

Prime DC would have been top of the pack in pride. Up there with Fedor, Mirko and Big Nog.
 
Leon Edwards said:
Yeah.. no.

Fedor got cleaned by hendo and you think he beats stipe? Stipe KO werdum the werdum Fedor got strangled by
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A fighters prime lasts about 10 years. Fedor already went undefeated for 10 years at that point. Doesn't matter that he was still kinda young. His prime had expired at that point. That fight was also a bad matchup for Fedor. He always had a speed advantage in his fights but fighting an elite middleweight, he was at a speed disadvantage and that disadvantage is what lead to the ko. Hendo scrambling faster than Fedor.

Hendo ended his career as a middleweight with wins over the #1 and #2 heavyweight GOATs. You're insane if you think a prime Hendo couldn't give Stipe problems. He had a chance to beat any fighter in the world on any given night.

Are you forgetting that prime Werdum was a bottom rung fighter in pride, that never even sniffed a titleshot, yet he became champion in the ufcs weaker heavyweight division?
 
dipstickjimmy said:
Did he though? 1-3 per year against quality plus a few cans?
So some years he fought 4-5 times with 3 being top quality?
2000 he had his first 5 fights. 2001 he had 5 fights.
2002 he had 3 and 2003 he had 5. 2004 he had 4.

During his first 5 years he fought 22 fights but that was the tournament era and most were cans. Big Nog x3, Randleman, Coleman & Arona that's 4 top level opponents. Babalu and Gary Goodridge aren't top opponents.

2005- 3 fights with 2 cans and one top level in Cro Cop
2006- 2 fights Coleman and Mark Hunt (is that 2 top level or was Hunt a can/ just a kickboxer)
2007- 2 fights MW Linland and Freakshow HMC
2008- 1 fight with Big Timmy
2009- Arlovski and Brett Rogers (is that 1 top 1 can)

10 fights and 5 years of is 10 year unbeaten streak did not include more then 1 fight with a "Top Level" HW per year. He is still pretty GOATy as a HW but Stipe with a 20-4 record has far more high level wins and lost only 4 times and has wins over all but the Struve loss. He would likely have avenged that one as well had Struve ever gotten near the level Stipe rose to after that fight.

IMO Stipe > Fedor at HW.
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How is Babalu, who has wins over Shogun and Chael and later became Strikeforce LHW champ, not a top level opponent?

2002—Schilt and Herring
2003– Nog as well as Fujita, who was still in MMA News’ top 10 and had been in everyone’s top 10 just before that. (Plus Goodridge, who was middling and on a decent win streak at the time). Fought Valavicius and Nagata in the can category.
2004–Coleman, Randleman, and Nog, all 3 of which were ranked. Fought Ogawa who really shouldn’t be called a can (although obviously not elite, and he did so the same night he also fought Nog in their 2nd fight. That’s an insane year actually.

2005-- Mirko (plus TK and Zulu)
2006– Coleman and Hunt
2007 —Lindland and Choi (Not the greatest year for various reasons, but I’m on the fence as to how to classify Lindland. Not a top HW win obviously, but even though he was MW, Lindland was an absolute beast who was #1 MW in the world. He’s a great fighter).
2008– Sylvia
2009– Arlovski and Rogers

That’s 12 very good opponents in that 7 year span, plus Babalu and Arona. You’d probably have to skip counting Stipe’s first two years in which he fought no really good opponents, to even get him to Fedor’s number. And then of course, Stipe took 3 losses in that time period as well, while Fedor took 0.

Fedor has more ranked wins; he has 5 total title defenses (PRIDE and WAMMA combined) in one continuous run—something Stipe didn’t achieve in two title reigns.

I respect your opinion, but I don’t see how Stipe can be ranked ahead of Fedor. There’s no real metric where he is ahead.
 
BFoe said:
How is Babalu, who has wins over Shogun and Chael and later became Strikeforce LHW champ, not a top level opponent?
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How is Babalu not a top ranked HW???? Think about that for a minute.

Stipe took 3 losses in your cherry picked time frame? Actually in the same time frame Fedor was on his run Stipe had not even fought yet. Stipe lost to 3 Very top level HWs in DC who he beat twice, JDS who he beat and Francis who he beat. He also lost to Struve. Over a 14 year (so far career) he has never lost twice in a row and has only 4 losses.

Fedor lost to Werdum, Bigfoot & MW Dan Henderson in a row. He also lost to MW/LHW Fabio Maldonado except for it being a fixed fight. He also lost to Meathead Mittrione & Ryan Bader x2.
9-6 since 2010 but again 8-7 if we are honest about the Maldonado fight.

Over that same period (Stipe's whole career) he is 22-4.

Of course we can not cherry pick stats and simply look at their careers as a whole. Fedor fought some top level opponents sprinkled through his 48 fight career. Stipe has been fighting consistently top level opponents since arriving in the UFC. His opposition has only increased in quality over his entire career and he has defeated every man he as faced except Struve. They never rematched as Struve never rose to the level Stipe moved on to achieve after their fight.

Fedor is impressive but he had long stretches facing vastly inferior competition while Stipe fought only at the highest level.
 
dipstickjimmy said:
How is Babalu not a top ranked HW???? Think about that for a minute.

Stipe took 3 losses in your cherry picked time frame? Actually in the same time frame Fedor was on his run Stipe had not even fought yet. Stipe lost to 3 Very top level HWs in DC who he beat twice, JDS who he beat and Francis who he beat. He also lost to Struve. Over a 14 year (so far career) he has never lost twice in a row and has only 4 losses.

Fedor lost to Werdum, Bigfoot & MW Dan Henderson in a row. He also lost to MW/LHW Fabio Maldonado except for it being a fixed fight. He also lost to Meathead Mittrione & Ryan Bader x2.
9-6 since 2010 but again 8-7 if we are honest about the Maldonado fight.

Over that same period (Stipe's whole career) he is 22-4.

Of course we can not cherry pick stats and simply look at their careers as a whole. Fedor fought some top level opponents sprinkled through his 48 fight career. Stipe has been fighting consistently top level opponents since arriving in the UFC. His opposition has only increased in quality over his entire career and he has defeated every man he as faced except Struve. They never rematched as Struve never rose to the level Stipe moved on to achieve after their fight.

Fedor is impressive but he had long stretches facing vastly inferior competition while Stipe fought only at the highest level.
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I did not ask about Babalu being a heavyweight, I asked about him being a top level opponent. An opponent Fedor fought in his rookie year, whereas Stipe didn’t fight anyone on that level in his.

There’s nothing cherry-picked about my timeframe, it’s roughly the same timeframe in each fighter’s career. I started counting from Fedor’s 2nd year, when he was fighting Top 10 fighters; I was kind to Stipe and started counting his 9 years one years later, because he fought nobodies his 2nd year and it wouldn’t have even been close.

How is it “cherry-picking” to look at ranked wins, title wins, title defenses, or winning streak, and number of high level opponents? Which other stats would you like to look at? Aren’t those all the significant stats with which one should compare? And Fedor wins every single one of those categories.
 
blackheart said:
"he fought in a different weak era"

Dude, at no point in history has there ever been a more stacked heavyweight division than Pride's. The UFC has NEVER had a HW division that could touch theirs.

So the opposite of what you said, is the actual reality. Fedor went undefeated in MMA history's MOST STACKED HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION
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this, it wasn't even close. PRIDE FC had the murderer's row of elite HWs for that time period. UFC had garbage. Hilarious how revisionist everything is here. on top of that, the revisioners want to pretend that only PRIDE FC was juicing, LOL. Remember Tim Sylvia's physique? Remember prime OG werewolflovski? the point is both orgs were dirty, the sport is still dirty, but back then, PRIDE by far had the better roster and Fedor rose to the very top of that, every time.
 
Beat Prime Big Nog, Prime Arlovski, Prime Tim Sylvia, Prime Cro Cop, Prime Coleman.

Not much else needs to be said to justify Fedor being labelled elite.

Arlovski is still hanging around the current generation of HWs.
 
It's as stupid to say he wasn't elite as it is to say he's the GOAT. You autistic nerds just cannot think clearly.
 
dipstickjimmy said:
How is Babalu not a top ranked HW???? Think about that for a minute.

Stipe took 3 losses in your cherry picked time frame? Actually in the same time frame Fedor was on his run Stipe had not even fought yet. Stipe lost to 3 Very top level HWs in DC who he beat twice, JDS who he beat and Francis who he beat. He also lost to Struve. Over a 14 year (so far career) he has never lost twice in a row and has only 4 losses.

Fedor lost to Werdum, Bigfoot & MW Dan Henderson in a row. He also lost to MW/LHW Fabio Maldonado except for it being a fixed fight. He also lost to Meathead Mittrione & Ryan Bader x2.
9-6 since 2010 but again 8-7 if we are honest about the Maldonado fight.

Over that same period (Stipe's whole career) he is 22-4.

Of course we can not cherry pick stats and simply look at their careers as a whole. Fedor fought some top level opponents sprinkled through his 48 fight career. Stipe has been fighting consistently top level opponents since arriving in the UFC. His opposition has only increased in quality over his entire career and he has defeated every man he as faced except Struve. They never rematched as Struve never rose to the level Stipe moved on to achieve after their fight.

Fedor is impressive but he had long stretches facing vastly inferior competition while Stipe fought only at the highest level.
Click to expand...
dipsh*tjimmy….fixed



[<cena1}
 
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