How good was Chael Sonnen at his peak?

No, but it should be said that his submission over Shogun happened later in his career when Sonnen had been training with Neil Melanson and had finally made a serious attempt to learn submission grappling. By Chael's own admission, prior to that he didn't really study submission grappling in any serious way. Obviously he was an elite fighter who made his mark on the sport though. But I'm just saying, the Shogun submission is not representative of Chael's submission ability for the whole of his career or even necessarily most of it.

Sonnen tightened up his BJJ since at least training with Fabiano Pega Leve and that goes back to around 2008.

https://www.graciemag.com/fabiano-pega-leve-top-ultraheavy-at-american-nationals/

Had Chael toooled and submitted the very best version of Shogun, then how do we label the shertards that are calling Sonnen's BJJ "terrible" or a joke"? It would be embarrassing even by sherdog standards.

Things are not black and white. Sonnen's ground game went from being pretty flakey around mid '00s to being very solid around 2010 and beyond. It's painfully obvious in the Shogun fight but not only in the Shogun fight.

Im replying this caliber of clown:

Sonnen is a running joke for having a cartoon number of submission losses

Everybody beat Sonnen.
.

Sonnen is absolutely terrible at BJJ, as evidenced by his journeyman record before

Excuse me but these are not serious takes on Sonnen's ground game and the Shogun fight, even that version of Shogun, shows that there are too much morons parroting sherdog memes on here.
This one with 22.000 posts ¡! in a mma forum is one of them as far as I can tell
 
Sonnen tightened up his BJJ since at least training with Fabiano Pega Leve and that goes back to around 2008.

https://www.graciemag.com/fabiano-pega-leve-top-ultraheavy-at-american-nationals/

Had Chael toooled and submitted the very best version of Shogun, then how do we label the shertards that are calling Sonnen's BJJ "terrible" or a joke"? It would be embarrassing even by sherdog standards.

Things are not black and white. Sonnen's ground game went from being pretty flakey around mid '00s to being very solid around 2010 and beyond. It's painfully obvious in the Shogun fight but not only in the Shogun fight.

Im replying this caliber of clown:





Excuse me but these are not serious takes on Sonnen's ground game and the Shogun fight, even that version of Shogun, shows that there are too much morons parroting sherdog memes on here.
This one with 22.000 posts ¡! in a mma forum is one of them as far as I can tell
I don't think we're in disagreement. And Sonnen's GROUND game was always great, just not his submission grappling. But he also had great control and pressure on the ground. That was true for the whole of his career.
 
Sorry for being the new MMA fan who asks dumb questions but I'm still learning about the history of the sport and the fighters from previous generations.

I watch Chael on YouTube a lot but it occurred to me that I never really watched him fight.

So I went to fight pass and watched a few and he appears to be a good wrestler but his striking was not that great by today's standards. I watched his fight with Anderson and he was a few seconds away from beating the guy people thought was the goat at the time and ending Anderson's streak. His record is like 34-17 which is average and he was apparently susceptible to submissions and good BJJ.

What am I missing?

He beat Paulo Filo and was seconds away from beating Anderson.

He beat shogun, beat Bisping.

Was a pioneer if you go way back and look at his opponents and tournaments.

He was Elite and except for the Jon Jones thing, he earned his shots and fights.
 
Charl was ranked number two for like three years

He was absolutely elite and had cardio and wrestling that would beat a lot of the top 10 today
 
I might be a wanker and whatever you want me to be but in this case, my discussion with that other guy further proved me right

This dude said that Marquardt and Okami accumulated losses later in their career and that somehow takes away the value of beating them the way Sonnen did and when he did. Yes, that's what you called a compelling argument.

This dude:



I mean what the fuck is that.
If it was just another noob its what it is but a guy with 22000 posts in a mma forum? Yes, it's fucing sad. Call me wanker as much as you want.

And by the way, doesnt mater how many times shertards parrot the meme, the BJJ of the guy who tools and submits Shogun Rua was not terrible, nor a joke, nor any other shertardism.

Shogun was terrible at that point in his career.

FFS Forrest tapped him years before. Shogun can't win a fight.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Sonnen got tapped out in 3 of his 7 losses AFTER your magical "2008" number. The only reason its not higher is the other 4 guys knocked him out without any fuss instead.

Chael has a journeyman's record and it was that was through every phase of his career, early middle and end. He had a good, short lived run. Smashed by Maia. Put away twice by Silva, ironically submitted by a guy who so few career submission wins.

With 11k posts since just 2016, you should know better. Start watching the fights it'll make this stuff easier.
 
He should be the posterboy for PED campaigns proving they work wonders.
 
To me Chael is to MW what Fitch was to WW, maybe a bit higher. For a MW that never won the major belt at his weight class he's got to be one of the highest rated all time.
 
No, but it should be said that his submission over Shogun happened later in his career when Sonnen had been training with Neil Melanson and had finally made a serious attempt to learn submission grappling. By Chael's own admission, prior to that he didn't really study submission grappling in any serious way. Obviously he was an elite fighter who made his mark on the sport though. But I'm just saying, the Shogun submission is not representative of Chael's submission ability for the whole of his career or even necessarily most of it.

Like K1 Hughes late in his career and Tito to an extent and Anderson's improved TDD in his mid to late 30s, the guys who have good longevity in MMA pick up some more tools as their bodies wear down.
 
Shogun was terrible at that point in his career.

FFS Forrest tapped him years before. Shogun can't win a fight.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Sonnen got tapped out in 3 of his 7 losses AFTER your magical "2008" number. The only reason its not higher is the other 4 guys knocked him out without any fuss instead.

Chael has a journeyman's record and it was that was through every phase of his career, early middle and end. He had a good, short lived run. Smashed by Maia. Put away twice by Silva, ironically submitted by a guy who so few career submission wins.

With 11k posts since just 2016, you should know better. Start watching the fights it'll make this stuff easier.

Just remove that Nick Diaz AV. It's embarrasing to see a guy that stupid and ignorant with it

Fact is Sonnen is the only fighter to make not one but two runs to a tittle shot during Silva's reign. And who gave Silva his toughest tittle defense, by a long margin.
You are calling this guy a journeyman.
Actually pathetic.

Sonnen is considered among the greatest MWs to never win a belt, besides Romero and very few more, and one of the greatest MW of his generation besides GOAT Anderson.
This is the consensus in the MMA community and no amount of posts from a textbook shertard will change it
 
Just remove that Nick Diaz AV. It's

The AV is much older than your account. You don't know what you're talking about, its a famous photojournalists picture.

sonnen is considered among the greatest MWs to never win a belt

By you, a moron.

Romero would literally murder Sonnen. He's not in the same class as those guys.
 
Chael is alright. He is no Rich Franklin though.....
 
ReflectingWeeklyCaudata-max-1mb.gif
"Ladies and Gentlemen, here we have the raw power behind what I like to call 'The spinning backfist of living death', which our friend Anderson is veeeeerrrrry familiar with. "
 
Sorry for being the new MMA fan who asks dumb questions but I'm still learning about the history of the sport and the fighters from previous generations.

I watch Chael on YouTube a lot but it occurred to me that I never really watched him fight.

So I went to fight pass and watched a few and he appears to be a good wrestler but his striking was not that great by today's standards. I watched his fight with Anderson and he was a few seconds away from beating the guy people thought was the goat at the time and ending Anderson's streak. His record is like 34-17 which is average and he was apparently susceptible to submissions and good BJJ.

What am I missing?
Gatekeeper
 
The AV is much older than your account. You don't know what you're talking about, its a famous photojournalists picture.



By you, a moron.

Romero would literally murder Sonnen. He's not in the same class as those guys.

Just remove the Diaz AV and your account all toguether, dude.

Regardless of whatever any shertard of your caliber says, Sonnen is considered among the greatest MWs to never win a belt, the toughest tittle defense of the GOAT, and among the greatest MW of his generation besides Anderson.
This is the consensus in the MMA community you like it or not, clown. It's what it is
 
Really good at what he did! Wasn't diverse tho. He was a top 3 middle weight for a few years maybe.
 
Sorry for being the new MMA fan who asks dumb questions but I'm still learning about the history of the sport and the fighters from previous generations.

I watch Chael on YouTube a lot but it occurred to me that I never really watched him fight.

So I went to fight pass and watched a few and he appears to be a good wrestler but his striking was not that great by today's standards. I watched his fight with Anderson and he was a few seconds away from beating the guy people thought was the goat at the time and ending Anderson's streak. His record is like 34-17 which is average and he was apparently susceptible to submissions and good BJJ.

What am I missing?
Well, you got your responses. From overrated cheater to one of the greatest of his generation, and everything in between.

Now I'm sorta curious TS; what did you think before reading these 100+ responses, and what do you now think after?
 
Chael Sonnen at his peak was probably around when he beat Paulo Filho 2007/2008 until 2013 or so when he lost to Anderson in the rematch and then Jones. Chael had made millions at that point and became a star, he didn't need MMA anymore and never took it as seriously again.

Chael had his flaws like his submission defense mainly but the guy who ran through Filho, Marquardt, Okami, Bryan Baker, Stann and Bisping was elite. Easily would be top 10 by today's standards, his striking output, wrestling, cardio, toughness and tenacity.

I actually think Chael would have a real case at beating Israel Adesanya. I would favor Chael to beat Alex Perreira, Sean Strickland, Darren Till. I think he'd be able to have a competitive fight with Cannonier, Brunson, Costa and Vettori not sure who I'd favor in those though. I don't think Chael has much of a chance vs Whittaker or Muniz.

His biggest problem was that he couldn't finish. That's why he ended up with so many sub losses. Eventually, if you're spending the whole fight in someone's guard, they'll catch you.
 
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