How good was Chael Sonnen at his peak?

[pankrat]

Marquardt was good not great and LITERALLY went 7-11 after losing to Sonnen. We don't have to give our opinions, that is just a literal fact. So you can put in context Sonnen's win at that point in Marquart's career, who would go down to welterweight.

Yes because styles make fights and Sonnen is absolutely terrible at BJJ, as evidenced by his journeyman record before, during and after fighting in the UFC. His record and losses speaks for itself.

You are saying complete bullshit. Sonnen's big claim to fame was beating Marquardt, Okami and Miller in a row, all by decision, before losing to Silva. That was the absolute highlight run of his career. In context its good not great. This is not controversial..

That's not context, it's void, stupid, fight finder nitpicking

Context is that

Marquardt was right in the middle of the best run in his career. Right in the time period when Nate got his biggest wins, his highest rankings (ranked #2) and in his athletic prime.
You prefer to bring numbers from even 10 years later along with that ridiculous gimmick of "just literal facts". Gtfo

Okami was universally ranked top5 at MW and had actually been sheduled for a tittle shot the year before, in 2008, which missed by injury (Coté replaced). This is literal history. Not whatever revisionism you suggest off a quick look on his record.

Okami had gone to close, even controversial decisions with Franklin and Shields. Neither of them got a single round over Yushin even close as dominant as Sonnen did in every of his rounds.
This is CONTEXT. You understand?
Okami beat Muñoz and Swick who right after made a run to UFC tittle eliminator themselves. Still in 2013 Yushin was #3 in UFC rankings...4 years after the Sonnen fight ¡!

You are saying complete bullshit. Sonnen's big claim to fame was beating Marquardt, Okami and Miller in a row, all by decision, before losing to Silva. That was the absolute highlight run of his career. In context its good not great. This is not controversial..

None of Silva's tittle challengers had a more legitimate run to a tittle shot than Sonnen.
Only Belfort and Henderson but only due to fights at LHW, not at MW.

Tell me who else? Name them. Or stop with the BS.

In context, it was a great run for a tittle challenger and no amount of sherdog memes and ridiculous nitpick of his opponents record will change that.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Sorry for being the new MMA fan who asks dumb questions but I'm still learning about the history of the sport and the fighters from previous generations.

I watch Chael on YouTube a lot but it occurred to me that I never really watched him fight.

So I went to fight pass and watched a few and he appears to be a good wrestler but his striking was not that great by today's standards. I watched his fight with Anderson and he was a few seconds away from beating the guy people thought was the goat at the time and ending Anderson's streak. His record is like 34-17 which is average and he was apparently susceptible to submissions and good BJJ.

What am I missing?

Watch his fight against Stann, that’s probably his best performance (that I saw anyway)

 

[Thepaintbucket]

Dangerous enough to get Jon Jones to turn him down as a replacement

 

[pamirec]

All I know is Shel’s trash talking changed his bum life.

 

[pamirec]

Dangerous enough to get Jon Jones to turn him down as a replacement

Rightfully so. Jon broke his toe when the fight finally took place.

 

[Uncommon Valor]

With or without the roids?

 

[djason1988]

Chael reinvented self-marketing, and laid the blueprint for people like Conor McGregor. As a fighter, he was an amazing wrestler but completely lack luster elsewhere. And of course, you have to factor in the heavy roid abuse. People make a big deal about his fight with Silva, but we have to remember that Silva was taken down by damn near everybody who tried. I think he's a solid top 5 (number 2 imo, right behind GSP) of all time, but his weakness was always wrestling.

 

[Lepo Lepo]

His fights with Nate, Okami, Stann were masterpieces.

 

[Tapatio]

TRT chael was a machine

 

[rjmbrd]

That's not context, it's void, stupid, fight finder nitpicking

A fighters record is literally context by definition.

Marquardt was right in the middle of the best run in his career. Right in the time period when Nate got his biggest wins, his highest rankings (ranked #2) and in his athletic prime.
You prefer to bring numbers from even 10 years later along with that ridiculous gimmick of "just literal facts".

Marquardt would - literally - never achieve anything at middleweight after fighting Sonnen, and would go on to a 7-11 career spiral including getting smashed many times at welterweight.

Okami was universally ranked top5 at MW

Right, this is Sonnen's single most important career win. It is a fine win. Now look at all the other guys who beat Okami before and after Sonnen, who took him to a decision.

None of Silva's tittle challengers had a more legitimate run to a tittle shot than Sonnen.

Weidman beat Munoz via murder and dominated Maia on short notice to make it an undefeated 5-0 to fight Silva. Maia casually beat Sonnen in the first round like he was fighting his child cousin. Munoz would have beaten the brakes off Sonnen, look up Chael saying as much out of his own mouth.

Belfort murdered Bisping, Rockhold and Henderson in a row to earn a shot against Weidman. These things are all relative to timing.

In context, it was a great run for a tittle challenger and no amount of sherdog memes and ridiculous nitpick of his opponents record will change that.

Beating Okami, Marquart and Dan @%@@! Miller (lmao are you out of your mind) is not a notable run across any generation of MMA. Its good. Its perfectly fine.

Sonnen has a journeyman record and is absolutely terrible at BJJ. His record and body of work speaks for itself. A good not great fighter.

 

[pankrat]

A fighters record is literally context by definition.



Marquardt would - literally - never achieve anything at middleweight after fighting Sonnen, and would go on to a 7-11 career spiral including getting smashed many times at welterweight.



Right, this is Sonnen's single most important career win. It is a fine win. Now look at all the other guys who beat Okami before and after Sonnen, who took him to a decision.



Weidman beat Munoz via murder and dominated Maia on short notice to make it an undefeated 5-0 to fight Silva. Maia casually beat Sonnen in the first round like he was fighting his child cousin. Munoz would have beaten the brakes off Sonnen, look up Chael saying as much out of his own mouth.

Belfort murdered Bisping, Rockhold and Henderson in a row to earn a shot against Weidman. These things are all relative to timing.





Beating Okami, Marquart and Dan @%@@! Miller (lmao are you out of your mind) is not a notable run across any generation of MMA. Its good. Its perfectly fine.

Sonnen has a journeyman record and is absolutely terrible at BJJ. His record and body of work speaks for itself. A good not great fighter.

You just repeated the same nitpick BS over again.
Marquardt KOed the same Maia you are giving credit, and Okami dominated the same Muñoz you are hyping.

Marquardt and Okami were BOTH top5 ranked at MW when Sonnen beat them.
No other Silva's tittle challenger beat two top5 at 185 in a row to get the shot at Silva. These are facts.

Do you type BJ's losing record after fighting Diaz, GSP or Frankie? Or Silva after fighting Weidman? While calling it "literal context? Are you seriously that caliber of moron? Or just here because you are dishonest in top of moron?


Anyways saying Sonnen has a "journeyman record" and was "absolutely terrible at BJJ" by MMA standards shows you dont know what are you talking about. Period.
Sherdog memes and nitpicking records. That's all you bring.


Sonnen had very good ground game by the time he reached his peak, as showed in fights with Rua or Stann, but also Marquardt or Silva. Yes, also vs Silva, mounting him and beating him up there for 5 separate rounds.

Sonnen greatly improved his grappling through the years specially under Fabiano Pega-Leve since 2008, to the point that he was a legitimate competitor in sub grappling in later years.
If you dont know, you don't know, but with 20+ posts on here, to go around with the "Chael terrible BJJ" meme is pretty ridiculous, not trying to be disrespectftul but it really is. Nobody in the MMA community would take such claim seriously at this point

 

[rjmbrd]

You just repeated the same nitpick BS over again.
Marquardt KOed the same Maia you are giving credit, and Okami dominated the same Muñoz you are hyping.

Styles make fights. Examine Maia's body of work, examine Marquardts. Their records speak for themselves.

Okami was a fine win. It is Sonnen's single greatest win of his career. What is your point? Tim @%@ Boetsch knocked out Okami. So did Silva and Jacare.

Do you type BJ's losing record after fighting Diaz, GSP or Frankie?

BJ went on to win multiple fights and defend the lightweight belt after losing to GSP. What are you talking about? Yes he eventually got old, like everyone else. That does not describe Marquardts career before and after losing a decision to Sonnen.

Anyways saying Sonnen has a "journeyman record" and was "absolutely terrible at BJJ" by MMA standards shows you dont know what are you talking about.

If you think Chael Sonnen is good at BJJ you are too stupid or misguided to discuss MMA with.

That is common sense and I honestly cannot believe I am typing it out. Say it out loud to yourself, see how it sounds.

Stann

LMFAO

Did you just bring up Brian Stann for MMA grappling? Stop posting for a while. You're fried.

 

[Vintage Vice]

Decent fighter ... good promoter.

 

[pankrat]

If you think Chael Sonnen is good at BJJ you are too stupid or misguided to discuss MMA with.

That is common sense and I honestly cannot believe I am typing it out. Say it out loud to yourself, see how it sounds.

Do not call common sense what is a sherdog meme.
Sonnen greatly evolved his ground game since 2008 and if you can't tell you just dont understand what you are wtaching, period.
The kind of reversal he did on the bigger Rua and the submission afterwards is not done by a terrible BJJ practitioner.

Marquardt was a top5 fighter when Sonnen beat him. Doesnt matter how much you discredit him nitpicking his record. He beat, apart from Maia, Kampman, Misaki, Woodley or Palhares. Had a close one with Okami too. He actually was a more highly regarded MW than Maia was.

I asked you to name a single fighter who had to get not one but two top5 wins in a row at 185 in order to challenge for Silva's belt, and you didnt other than Weidman (barely).
GSP's tittle challengers didnt need to get better wins than that in a row to challenge for the belt neither.

Okami was a fine win. It is Sonnen's single greatest win of his career.

It's one of his greatest wins, but Maquardt or Bisping could very well dispute to be as good if not better, both by ranking at the time as by overall career. Apart from the Rua submission.

So why making this kind of void, ignorant claim "Single greatest win"
Pretty telling about your way of arguing

Tim @%@ Boetsch knocked out Okami. So did Silva and Jacare.

Didnt Condit, Fitch, Kos, Hendricsk, Shields, etc, etc, got beat or even finished by same or even lesser opponents than Jacare?
Fitch, just for example, got choked by Burkman, who is not much if any better than Boetch, who btw got completely outclassed by Okami for 10 minuts prior to the epic comeback.

Would yo bring those losses in order to try and discredit the aforementioned tittle challengers?

I honesty did expect better from a guy with 20k+ posts in a mma forum and the AV of Nick Diaz but I think we had enough. Too much ignorance and bias all over the place.

 

[rjmbrd]

Sonnen greatly evolved his ground game since 2008

He started off a running joke, so what is your point?

Since 2008 he would get submitted in 3 of his 7 total losses. It would be more but he got cartoonishly KO'd in the other losses so they didn't need to tap him, but they could have.

Marquardt was a top5 fighter when Sonnen beat him.

It was a fine win. What is your point?

Dan Miller has a terrible record and nobody would call him an important win. Marquardt is a fine win, and Okami was a good win.

Miller - Marquardt - Okami is his career best run and its... good. Perfectly fine.

Sonnen is a good not great fighter and his consistent losses throughout every single phase of his career paint the picture. Good wrestling, decent boxer. Terrible at getting finishes and terrible liability with BJJ. His record speaks for itself.

 

[snaportap21]

In a world without Anderson Silva he'd have been a world champion. His biggest problem was inconsistency. But second biggest was fighting in the era of the best champions in the sports history.

He should have been a world champ after Fihlo. He made weight, yet Paulo didn’t. He was screwed over big time.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

He arguably lost to Bisping and said to Mike in the cage that he thought Bisping won which is why he was the only one to give praise to Michael Bisping when he was one of the most hated fighters in the sport.

I thought it was a pretty clear-cut 29-28 for Sonnen.

 

[Dr Guildo]

On a scale 1-5 Chael was maximum a strong 3.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Great Talker
Good Fighter

 

[pankrat]

He started off a running joke, so what is your point?
.

More void, ignorant memes filled with hyperboles

No, a running joke doesnt beat Sobral, Oleyinik Filho or Prangley, nor pass the guard and submit with ease a legitimate fighter in Amar Suloev.
Then, after the Maia loss, specifically hired Fabiano Pega Leve to tighten up his BJJ and got in the gear.

So Sonnen didnt go from "running joke" to "terrible at BJJ".
Sonnen went from an over agressive wrestler with holes in his sub defense but already capable of beating good sub grapplers, to a very solid and experienced ground fighter during his prime that only got caught by the GOAT after 24 minuts of grind and by one of the best BJJ masters ever in MMA; and that tooled and submitted Shogun Rua.
That's what a fair look at Sonnen's career will tell you. What you parrot is a sherdog meme.

Sonnen is a good not great fighter and his consistent losses throughout every single phase of his career paint the picture. Good wrestling, decent boxer. Terrible at getting finishes and terrible liability with BJJ. His record speaks for itself.

Sonnen was one of the best MWs of his generation, and about as much of a legitimate tittle challenger as most in Silva or GSP's reigns. Period.
His career speak for himself. Void and ignorant analysis of his record filled with sherdog memes won't change that.