How good was Chael Sonnen at his peak?

[rjmbrd]

Sonnen was one of the best MWs of his generation,

Sonnen is a running joke for having a cartoon number of submission losses throughout every phase of his entire career, including literally right now.

Everybody beat Sonnen.

He had a good not great 3 fight, all decision win streak against Miller (not UFC caliber fighter or record) Okami and Marquardt. Those three wins do not make you one of the best MWs of his generation.

He got hilariously put away by Maia and Silva finished him twice. Getting finished twice by Silva is not a career stat, the first time of which he failed a PEDS test.

You're being a weirdo / troll. There are better ways of getting attention than blowing smoke of Chael Sonnen of all people. What a goof, just like his career record.

 

[pankrat]

Sonnen is a running joke for having a cartoon number of submission losses throughout every phase of his entire career, including literally right now.

Everybody beat Sonnen.

He had a good not great 3 fight, all decision win streak against Miller (not UFC caliber fighter or record) Okami and Marquardt. Those three wins do not make you one of the best MWs of his generation.

He got hilariously put away by Maia and Silva finished him twice. Getting finished twice by Silva is not a career stat, the first time of which he failed a PEDS test.

You're being a weirdo / troll. There are better ways of getting attention than blowing smoke of Chael Sonnen of all people. What a goof, just like his career record.

Sonnen was one of the best MWs of his generation, and about as much of a legitimate tittle challenger as most in Silva or GSP's reigns.

Okami, Marquardt, Bisping, Suloev, Filho, Stann at 185, among other legit Ws at LHW, as well as giving Silva his toughest tittle defense makes for one of the best MWs of his generation, and as a matter of fact he is the only MW of his generation who challenged Silva twice for his belt.

His career speak for himself.

Sonnen is a running joke

Everybody beat Sonnen.
.

This guy has 22K posts in a mma forum. What a goof

 

[Shaun K]

Great fighter that was capable of beating anybody but beat nobody


GOAT of trash talk

 

[rjmbrd]

Sonnen was one of the best MWs of his generation

Good not great. Smashed by Maia. Never fought tough matchups for him like Munoz, Belfort, Weidman.

Smashed twice by Silva, second time non-competitive.

Bisping

Controversial decision he should not have won against... Bisping. That perfectly sums up where Sonnen fits in. Via MMAFighting:

Retro Robbery Review: Chael Sonnen vs. Michael Bisping at UFC on FOX 2

Filho

Tapped him the first time with no fuss. Rematch he was obviously mentally ill, talking to ghosts in the cage. Do you watch MMA? You even know about these fights? I don't think so.

Stann

LMFAO. Stann. This sums up your MMA knowledge.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Pretending that Okami and Marquart weren't good in the first place - being both around 30 years old and in the middle of their prime years - is a "compelling argument"?
Not to mention Bisping, Stan, Suloev, Shogun or Chael's actual fights with Silva.

I noticed there is a bad trend in sherdog with so many noobs and kids, but reading that kind of revisionism from two old-timers who have 50+K posts toguether is pretty dissapointing, to be honest

Don’t be such a wanker. Earlier in the thread I said he was #2 for quite awhile and very good. What that other poster said also had some merit, hence I said it was a compelling argument. Often - especially in this sport - there can be many different shades of truth. You always only see one shade, and you insufferably demand others see your version only too.

Sometimes you’re on the money and sometimes you’re just a fucking wanker. Get over yourself.

And no one ever pretended Okami and Marquardt were never good. You had to lie to try to prop up your strawman. You’re usually better than that.

 

[ryun253]

Mid. Take away his promos, he would be completely forgotten.

 

[Sickbro69420]

This thread was started by Chael.

Gracious warrior is 10x more annoying than Chael

 

[Mind Mine]

Chael is probably the most entertaining male fighter the UFC has seen… that has the striking grace of a WMMA prelim fighter. He utilized his style to decent effect… When roided to the gills

 

[NationWideNinja]

Marquardt was good not great and LITERALLY went 7-11 after losing to Sonnen. We don't have to give our opinions, that is just a literal fact. So you can put in context Sonnen's win at that point in Marquart's career, who would go down to welterweight.



Yes because styles make fights and Sonnen is absolutely terrible at BJJ, as evidenced by his journeyman record before, during and after fighting in the UFC. His record and losses speaks for itself.




You are saying complete bullshit. Sonnen's big claim to fame was beating Marquardt, Okami and Miller in a row, all by decision, before losing to Silva. That was the absolute highlight run of his career. In context its good not great. This is not controversial.




Yes a controversial pick-em decision (look up the media scores) against... Mike Bisping. That perfectly sums up where Sonnen fits in.

Your listing of records post Chael fight is not the gotchaaa argument you think it is considering youre talking about old fighters who obviously will rack up a lot of losses at the end of their career. Its about where they were at skill level wise when Chael beat them, and Okami was a beast in his prime who built himself up to a titleshot after the Chael loss.

What record did Anderson have post Weidman? What record did BJ have post Frankie, how about Koscheck or Hughes? Lawler after Woodley?

 

[NationWideNinja]

He was a good fighter who relied on his gritty non-stop pressure type of wrestling. I would say at the time you could have called him an elite MW, but that also speaks to the shape of the division around 2010. If prime Chael competed anywhere from 2013 I would have given him very little chance to get to a titleshot considering he would be competing against guys such as:

Prime Weidman
Rockhold
Romero
Jacare
Machida
Etc

 

[rjmbrd]

Okami was a beast in his prime

Agreed. Okami was solidly a top 10 fighter when Sonnen fought him. It is unequivocally Chael's signature win in his career.

I'll repeat it again - Sonnen was a very good fighter. Not great, and not elite because his BJJ sucked and he's the type of guy that gets summarily tapped out in the first round by Maia with zero fuss. He's the type of guy that goes to a controversial decision against Bisping.

Saying he's one of the great middleweights is patently absurd. His record is a good accounting of where he fits in, and its the same across every phase of his career.

 

[BarbellzNbacon]

Never lost a round. Still undefeated. Chael's always at his peak.

 

[thebesteva21]

I was convinced Okami would beat him, then absolutely convinced Mardquardt would destroy him. The Anderson fight was epic. Totally different fighter after the failed PED test though. Not a smart fighter, and showed little heart when in trouble or hurt. Got to give him credit for taking fights agaisnt anybody though, and always showed up to the fight.

His epic upset against Shogun was fun. This forum was so butt hurt.

 

[krelianx]

Total juicehead. But he beat top tier competition. Anyone who can perform like he did against Silva is a top tier fighter. Okami, Marquardt, Shogun, Filho, Bisping... He had amazing wins. But, juice.

 

[west42]

Hard to figure when his peak was\is, seeing how he never lost a fight

 

[trenton123]

Sorry for being the new MMA fan who asks dumb questions but I'm still learning about the history of the sport and the fighters from previous generations.

I watch Chael on YouTube a lot but it occurred to me that I never really watched him fight.

So I went to fight pass and watched a few and he appears to be a good wrestler but his striking was not that great by today's standards. I watched his fight with Anderson and he was a few seconds away from beating the guy people thought was the goat at the time and ending Anderson's streak. His record is like 34-17 which is average and he was apparently susceptible to submissions and good BJJ.

What am I missing?

Undefeated Undisputed GOAT

 

[Greyscale]

Was never good. Pillow fisted and with terrible sub defense. Only managed to get his title fights with trash talking.

 

[pankrat]

Don’t be such a wanker. Earlier in the thread I said he was #2 for quite awhile and very good. What that other poster said also had some merit, hence I said it was a compelling argument. Often - especially in this sport - there can be many different shades of truth. You always only see one shade, and you insufferably demand others see your version only too.

Sometimes you’re on the money and sometimes you’re just a fucking wanker. Get over yourself.

And no one ever pretended Okami and Marquardt were never good. You had to lie to try to prop up your strawman. You’re usually better than that.

I might be a wanker and whatever you want me to be but in this case, my discussion with that other guy further proved me right

This dude said that Marquardt and Okami accumulated losses later in their career and that somehow takes away the value of beating them the way Sonnen did and when he did. Yes, that's what you called a compelling argument.

This dude:

Sonnen is a running joke for having a cartoon number of submission losses throughout every phase of his entire career, including literally right now.

Everybody beat Sonnen.
.

I mean what the fuck is that.
If it was just another noob its what it is but a guy with 22000 posts in a mma forum? Yes, it's fucing sad. Call me wanker as much as you want.

And by the way, doesnt mater how many times shertards parrot the meme, the BJJ of the guy who tools and submits Shogun Rua was not terrible, nor a joke, nor any other shertardism.

 

[Fioretti]

At his peak!? He was 16.9:1 IIRC.

That's over 4x the regular juicers. Pretty good, eh?

 

[Kforcer]

I might be a wanker and whatever you want me to be but in this case, my discussion with that other guy further proved that it was a textbook shertard discrediting Sonnen's career by nitpicking the record of his opponents, or just parroting shertard memes.

This dude said that Marquardt and Okami accumulated losses later in their career and that somehow takes away the value of beating them the way Sonnen did and when he did. Yes, that's what you called a compelling argument.

This dude:



I mean what the fuck is that.
If it was a just another noob its what it is but a guy with 22000 posts in a mma forum? Holly shit, it's fucking sad.

And by the way, doesnt mater how many times shertards parrot the meme, the BJJ of the guy who tools and submits Shogun Rua was not terrible, nor a joke, nor any other shertardism.

No, but it should be said that his submission over Shogun happened later in his career when Sonnen had been training with Neil Melanson and had finally made a serious attempt to learn submission grappling. By Chael's own admission, prior to that he didn't really study submission grappling in any serious way. Obviously he was an elite fighter who made his mark on the sport though. But I'm just saying, the Shogun submission is not representative of Chael's submission ability for the whole of his career or even necessarily most of it.