How far has the sport really evolved? Who would win between Prime BJ Penn and Edson Barboza?

Prime BJ has a good chance against everyone in the LW division.
Someone like RDA, Ferguson, and if Conor somehow sharpens his TDD when moving to LW would be problems from him though.
Prime Benson might be able to outpoint him but who knows.
 
The Bard said:
It has evolved very little. If this sport truly required a lot of training and shit, would Bones Jones, a grappler with no striking, have been the most well-rounded champ in the business in his early 20's? Would McGregor, a guy with little amateur combat experience, have been able to dominate a division culminating with a knockout of the P4P #1, by being on top of his game by the time he beat Brimage at age 24? Would old school guys like Werdum and Robbie be champs if the game really changed that much? Would Mark Hunt have made a championship run just because he finally spent about 42 days training grappling? Would Brock Lesnar have come over as a wrestler and won the title without ever learning how to take a punch?

No, no, no, no, no. Fighting is about physical tools with a little bit of training. Nerds in their parents' basements like to think it's all about strategy and development and constant evolution and shit, but it's really not. It's about natural fighters who manage to hone those skills in a little bit. It's not rocket science, it's not medicine, it's not law or any other field where people get better with age and training. It's primarily a barbaric sport that relies on physical tools with a just a modicum of refinement.
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This is honestly so true.
 
The whole idea that "current" means "better" is a myth. BJ absolutely had the skills to beat today's top LWs.

He'd be neck and neck with Bendo. His grappling AND striking is better. His wrestling, strength and power is very underrated.

He'd beat Melendez.

Pettis can't defend a takedown to save his life and if BJ got him down, it'd be nothing like Alvarez's takedowns.

Penn would drop and finish Alvarez.

Khabib offers nothing that BJ hasn't already dealt with to some degree of success or more.

RDA is a tricky fight for me to call because I haven't seen many glaring holes lately but BJ had the tools to beat him too. It's just a matter of who utilized their skills better.
 
Cry0Therapy737 said:
Uh, did you watch BJ Penn in his prime? Because prime BJ Penn would beat anyone that has ever fought at Lightweight outside of Frankie Edgar, yes I said it, anyone including RDA, Conor, Pettis, Bendo, Cowboy, you name them, prime BJ Penn would beat them.

Prime BJ under the Marinovich's was an animal, the dude had a great jab, fantastic boxing, he had relentless cardio, and he was even throwing flying knees and headkicks when you combine that with BJ's iron chin, world class ground game and TDD that BJ Penn was one of the very best fighters to ever live.

Prime BJ Penn was truly the perfect fighter, he was like TRT Vitor he was a God amongst mere men, shame BJ didn't stay with them.
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I think Edgar, benson, RDA and khabib could all give him problems but he is def on their level.
 
If you want to talk about lack of evolution, talk about how the HW division is run by guys that were middle of the pack 10 years ago.

I mean no offense to Rothwell, Arlovski, or Hunt but they haven't gotten any better over the years... I'd argue their physical condition has actually deteriorated because of age and wear & tear but they're still dominating most of the division.
 
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karatekick1 said:
I think you are dramatically underestimating the amount you need to drill those techniques into your muscle memory so that you execute them under extreme pressure.

It requires a lot of training and repetition.
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Lol that guy has no perspective. MMA involves far more skills than most sports. It's every combat sport rolled into one!
I'd hate to see how that guy describes track and field and swimming.

Yes, how effective your skills will be does depend on your physicality, just like in every contact sport. Those skills are still important though!
 
Cry0Therapy737 said:
Uh, did you watch BJ Penn in his prime? Because prime BJ Penn would beat anyone that has ever fought at Lightweight outside of Frankie Edgar, yes I said it, anyone including RDA, Conor, Pettis, Bendo, Cowboy, you name them, prime BJ Penn would beat them.

Prime BJ under the Marinovich's was an animal, the dude had a great jab, fantastic boxing, he had relentless cardio, and he was even throwing flying knees and headkicks when you combine that with BJ's iron chin, world class ground game and TDD that BJ Penn was one of the very best fighters to ever live.

Prime BJ Penn was truly the perfect fighter, he was like TRT Vitor he was a God amongst mere men, shame BJ didn't stay with them.
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GSP disagreed.
 
as great as Bj was there is no way he would have been able to strike with some of these guys today. He never faced high level strikers in his career. Imean Gomi was dynamite but he didnt have the kicks and the speed tjhat Cerrone, Barboza and pettis have. I think Bj would have smashed Pettis but Braboza??? no way that dude is fukcing insane suspect chin or not. I think Edson would obliterate him on the feet.
 
Barboza would lose but that isn't really an indictment of MMA's evolution. He's not exactly the most well-rounded fighter.

Should have picked RDA.
 
I don't understand how this hypothetical match up speaks to how far the sport has evolved.
 
RondaDrowsy said:
prime bj would be #1

edgar just has his number. edgar is a great, great fighter. he's one of the goat's.
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I'm not trying to take anything away from BJ, but LW is a lot deeper than it was back in BJ's day. There is no way guys like Joe Stephenson or Hermes Franka would be fighting for a title now a days.
 
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Guardian MMA said:
The BJ hype is so stupid and ridiculous.

RDA murders BJ
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BJ of today? Of course. Prime BJ? I don't think so, I think it'd be an even fight, what does RDA of today have over 08-10 BJ? They're pretty similar except BJ is a bit more technical with his hands with RDA having the better kicking game.

aus101 said:
I think Edgar, benson, RDA and khabib could all give him problems but he is def on their level.
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Edgar is a lot like prime BJ, that's why I think he was able to give BJ problems he had a lot of the same qualities he had, Benson, RDA, Khabib, and Tony would all be tough fights but he could win them, I think he'd definitely out box Benson but the rest are 50/50

KillerElite said:
GSP disagreed.
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GSP didn't fight at 155.
 
"Prime" Penn lost plenty of fights he shouldn't have, so he's not some unbeatable monolith. Plus his best run was against Shark, Diego, Florian, and Stevenson. I can think of more than a few top lightweights who would look like gods if they had that schedule.

So while I don't think mma has advanced so much that he wouldn't beat someone like Barboza, I think he'd get starched on his best day by RDA and Khabib, and he'd have tons of trouble with Cerrone, Pettis, and Nate, but I'd favor him against Gil and Alvarez
 
I think BJ wins by TKO or RNC easily, BJ was much better in his prime.
 
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