How far has the sport really evolved? Who would win between Prime BJ Penn and Edson Barboza?

legkicktko said:
Because Barboza is kind of "entry to top 10" in the current landscape,
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Entry Level BJP is a better comparison than a Prime VS Young Prospect who's had a couple losses. Unfair comparison imo.
 
The sport has evolved quite a bit. The earliest UFC fighters lived in the water and had gills.

Man we've come a long way.
 
Which Doctor said:
It was a kiss. He learned from GSP...

2m2ut01.jpg
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Mickey Avalon kissed him for those who don't know.
 
Lionel Mandrake said:
Prime BJ Could be top 10, but he would never get close to the title in today's LW division.
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Its been 6 years since Penn was on top. People act like its been 15 years. MMA is not that different then 6 years ago. I am not even a Penn fan but he would probably be champ or a top contender today
 
lol...id pick BJ now and Barboza could qualify as the lowest tier opponent of Penns career.
 
This is my opinion, the ‘average’ skill (in the cage) has risen, due to more people being in the game starting at a younger age, but the peak hasn’t increased all that much. I.e. I would give Prime BJ or Prime GSP an excellent shot at winning the belt now.

and in some areas, the skills, have decreased over the last 10 years.

For example, this is a result of the Unified Rules being the standard now:

- fighters are not as good at soccer kicking or stomping

- fighters are not as good at sprawling and kneeing the head, using the sprawl offensively

-they rely on taking a break every 5 minutes, they are not as good at pacing themselves for longer period fights.

-They are not as good at fighting from their back and defending themselves for long periods as the game as the game has changed to make sure you ‘get to your feet’

- Fighters are not as good at fighting in the ring or cutting off corners.

Etc.


Conversely, fighters are better at things that work in the Unified world. Cage grinding, walking off the cage. Fighting at higher pace for shorter periods, defending takedowns, takedowns in general. Etc.

Its horses for courses. The skill in the cage is as high as its ever been as most top fighters have adapted purely to that environment (and rules). Conversely, if you took top fighters of now and put them in Pride vs the top guys of the past Shogun/Mirko/Fedor etc, many of them would be stomped as their style relies on their environment, and in this case the sport has 'devolved' from what was required in a Pride style org.
 
Pime BJ is one of the best fighters ever


He wins



Prime Penn runs the lightweight gauntlet right now

and at the end beats mcgregor by rear naked in the first round
 
legkicktko said:
You would pick flat footed, upright Penn over Barboza?
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i doubt he would fight like that again. It was a strategical gimmick that failed miserably enough for even BJ to admit it was a joke...and yes, Barboza is totally middle of the road, one dimensional, and relatively soft. The day Penn gets his ass kicked by a middle of the road fighter. I'm talking perennial middle of the road guys, not an elite guy on the come up(which Rory was and Barboza isnt)...the day i write him off against middle of the road fighters. As of Feb 15 2016 that has never happened or come close.

Im of the opinion that if BJ Penn had taken a Barboza type fight..maybe a Lentz type fight..possibly a Siver type fight in between his last few fights against the likes of Diaz, Macdonald at WW and then making his debut at FW against the number 2 in the division who had his number...people wouldnt be breaking him off so much disrespect when it comes to his standing because he would beat those guys. Usually legends have to start losing to guys you know they would destroy in their prime before we go assuming that they would get destroyed if he fought them today.

Also, Barboza is a laughable benchmark for evolution when we're talking about the guy who could do just about anything at a high level as if he's some relic from an under developed era. BJ Penn is still incredibly unique.
 
The fact that you chose to compare the best fighter of his time to a fighter who is barely top 10 is enough to see how far the sport has come.

That being said, prime BJ would catch him with a punch and submit him on the ground much like Cerone did.
 
It has evolved very little. If this sport truly required a lot of training and shit, would Bones Jones, a grappler with no striking, have been the most well-rounded champ in the business in his early 20's? Would McGregor, a guy with little amateur combat experience, have been able to dominate a division culminating with a knockout of the P4P #1, by being on top of his game by the time he beat Brimage at age 24? Would old school guys like Werdum and Robbie be champs if the game really changed that much? Would Mark Hunt have made a championship run just because he finally spent about 42 days training grappling? Would Brock Lesnar have come over as a wrestler and won the title without ever learning how to take a punch?

No, no, no, no, no. Fighting is about physical tools with a little bit of training. Nerds in their parents' basements like to think it's all about strategy and development and constant evolution and shit, but it's really not. It's about natural fighters who manage to hone those skills in a little bit. It's not rocket science, it's not medicine, it's not law or any other field where people get better with age and training. It's primarily a barbaric sport that relies on physical tools with a just a modicum of refinement.
 
Penn, when he is motivated would just wrap him up. I still think he has a good shot though.
 
The Bard said:
It has evolved very little. If this sport truly required a lot of training and shit, would Bones Jones, a grappler with no striking, have been the most well-rounded champ in the business in his early 20's? Would McGregor, a guy with little amateur combat experience, have been able to dominate a division culminating with a knockout of the P4P #1, by being on top of his game by the time he beat Brimage at age 24? Would old school guys like Werdum and Robbie be champs if the game really changed that much? Would Mark Hunt have made a championship run just because he finally spent about 42 days training grappling?

No, no, no, no, no. Fighting is about physical tools with a little bit of training. Nerds in their parents' basements like to think it's all about strategy and development and constant evolution and shit, but it's really not. It's about natural fighters who manage to hone those skills in a little bit. It's not rocket science, it's not medicine, it's not law or any other field where people get better with age and training. It's primarily a barbaric sport that relies on physical tools with a just a modicum of refinement.
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People will not hit like on your post, but its mostly true.

People seem to get mad at truth.
 
TheRuthlessOne said:
Pime BJ is one of the best fighters ever


He wins



Prime Penn runs the lightweight gauntlet right now

and at the end beats mcgregor by rear naked in the first round
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You're joking right? BJ's boxing was feared back in the day. Todays level of striking is head and shoulder above what BJ's was. BJ would barely make top 5 let alone be the champ, let alone beat mcgregor.
 
The sport hasn't evolved as much as people think it has. A lot of the top fighters of the past could very will be top fighters today were it not for father time.
 
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