How does Charles Oliveria do against those who previously beat him?

NoSmilez said:
Most of those guys are retired or really close to being retired. There is no point watching them rematch now.
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TS specifically said 'how would they match up prime -vs- prime' not that they should fight again now etc.

Its an interesting concept in MMA when guys really seem to hit their stride. Guys like Pettis were extremely dangerous for a short window, and average for a much longer period of their career. Then you have someone like Cowboy who generally beats the guys who are middling or don't belong, but loses to the best.

I'd say the best Do Bronx beats any version of Cowboy on average. The absolute best Pettis and Edgar? Those are interesting fights.
 
jkthenatural said:
Gotcha, I truly believe he beats all except max and probably still pettis. Pettis was legitimately a very very good fighter in his prime, I could still see Charles possibly winning though. I think max is an absolutely terrible match up for him though
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Charles will submit max now.
 
rjmbrd said:
TS specifically said 'how would they match up prime -vs- prime' not that they should fight again now etc.

Its an interesting concept in MMA when guys really seem to hit their stride. Guys like Pettis were extremely dangerous for a short window, and average for a much longer period of their career. Then you have someone like Cowboy who generally beats the guys who are middling or don't belong, but loses to the best.

I'd say the best Do Bronx beats any version of Cowboy on average. The absolute best Pettis and Edgar? Those are interesting fights.
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Sorry . Didn't realize it was some fantasy thing.
 
Right now he’d beat all of them.
Prime for prime, Max and Frankie would be close fights.
 
JonJonesNeedle said:
Charles is basically in his prime right now. Great grappler with nice striking. Gets dropped but comes back. Can sub you standing or on the ground. He's currently 32 I believe.

Interestingly a lot of fighters he has lost to were in their prime while Charles was relatively young. Curious on how Current Prime Charles does against the following fighters in their prime at 155:

Cowboy
Felder
Edgar
Max
Pettis

FWIW I believe he lost to Jim Miller when he was younger but then won the rematch years later when Charles was closer to his prime.
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The only even remote threat is Max. Charles is the most dangerous MMA fighter since Cocaine Jones...and passed the drug test.


Okay , maybe not...but maybe.
 
The Biggest difference between old charles and new charles is discipline. He fights much smarter. I think he beats everyone but Max
 
I hope Justin gets the chance to beat that ass and then goes all Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake and shaves that stupid haircut of his. Merry Christmas Sherdog.
 
You have to keep in mind that Charles started in the UFC at like age 20 and was thrown in with the sharks, no easy matchmaking for his first 10+ fights like the O’Malley or Khabib treatment. Now he’s a shark and looking like a more dangerous and well rounded fighter than the guys he’s lost to.

I’d bet on him over any of those guys today, out of that list only Max could make it competitive, but it would look like Oliviera vs Ferguson on the ground but worse for Max.
 
NoSmilez said:
Sorry . Didn't realize it was some fantasy thing.
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I don't know so much 'fantasy' but in a practical sense, where does the Do Brox of today fit in with his peers through his generation of fighting?

Personally I think its unbelievable to have such a ridiculous number of submission wins spending nearly your entire professional career fighting the best in the world. His strength of schedule is completely bonkers.
 
Moosetony said:
Charles will submit max now.
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Nah Max's takedown defense is elite. Maybe he'd avoid getting backpacked too. If Max had a full camp to bulk up properly for lightweight (unlike 236 vs Poirier) I think he beats Charles over 5 rounds. Still have doubts how Charles will look if he ever gets taken to the championship rounds.
 
Beats all, besides Max - which could be a toss up. I think Felder would get strangled this time cause Ollie's no longer smol for LW and Paul son'd him via sheer strength on the ground last time. But Felder's very game an durable, could be a decision and Ollie's never been in championship rounds, so Paul might have an advantage there as well.

Overall, it is what it is - Charles has gotten better, he should be the rightful favorite over everyone of them.
 
svmr_db said:
Nah Max's takedown defense is elite. Maybe he'd avoid getting backpacked too. If Max had a full camp to bulk up properly for lightweight (unlike 236 vs Poirier) I think he beats Charles over 5 rounds. Still have doubts how Charles will look if he ever gets taken to the championship rounds.
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I don't know man. The variety of strikes oliveira would hit max with would be a lot, and we've seen oliveira submit guys standing like 6 times....

I actually think we could still see this rematch someday.
 
Prime Pettis has too much for him whereever the fight goes, perhaps charles sneaks a sub in

Felder and Miller? PRIME Oliveira wins those..

Not sure about Frankie, tough to say. Same with Max--Prime for Prime, Oliveira's going to be a bigger, more physical guy, and while Max might be a poor stylistic match-up, I tend to think that Charles' more mature body--and mind-- could make a pronounced difference.
 
Substance Abuse said:
I really think Charles moving up and filling out has helped with his durability which in turn has helped him build his confidence and not shut down mentally which he used to do.

I think Prime Frankie, Max and Pettis beat him. It's insane how underrated Prime, athletic Pettis is on this forum. He did some otherworldly shit. Max is just a tough matchup for him and has very underrated TDD. Frankie is just Frankie. I mean, that guy at his best is an all timer.

Let's just appreciate Charlie. The guy is such a breath of fresh air as a person and a champion.
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1000% agreed, that is so true what you said about his weight.

Charles has put on a lot of weight since he was first in UFC, which I think has been a good factor in him being more durable and being able to take shots better now

When he first came to UFC he was so skinny, he looked like a flyweight but just tall, he was so skinny. But in recent years he has bulked up and is certainly more wider and bulkier.. and in my opinion its changed the way he takes shots. He was grossly malnourished and severely underweight when he first came to UFC and would wilt easily to aggression. He has improved a lot and is much more tough now. He will probably look big in the octagon against Gaethje. Charles chin changed when he put on weight, no doubt about it.
 
He runs through everyone easily except for Max, who can definitely give him a close, competitive fight. But I ultimately think he can beat him too.
 
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