Opinion How can anyone honestly say that the left is patriotic?

[TheGreatA]

Attention spans that can comprehend more than a paragraph are rare in the online world

Which just serves to reinforce my point, that the modern generations of people aren't even capable of truly being "patriotic". Patriotism is something that is enforced in a people through an understanding of history, and an appreciation of the efforts that it has taken to arrive into present conditions. A degree of glorification obviously also goes along with that, even if that's offensive to modern people's sensibilities.

The modern Twitter generation is not really fit to comprehend any of that, when they can barely comprehend a post that consists of more than two or three sentences.

That's alright with me, I never think that a "majority" are required to be patriotic anyway, it only requires a handful of dedicated people to keep a tradition alive for centuries. The problem, as I've spelled out, is when the masses start going too far in the other direction, where they become destructive to any efforts to preserve valuable and important things and concepts, that were achieved, in some cases, over periods of hundreds or even thousands of years. When works of art are being brought down, language is being "changed", history is being re-written, national symbols are being vilified, the "patriot" is forced to act.

 

[Stokanator]

Implying nobody on the left isn't patriotic probably isn't fair, there are some that don't like the direction of their party. That being said patriotic liberals seems to be dwindling especially with millennials. Today's Democratic Party establishment isn't even recognizable compared to the Clinton years. They've gone so far left it's impossible for me to comprehend how anybody could be a supporter of the Biden Administration. The degree of dishonesty in the Democratic Party blows my mind. They say they want and are fighting tooth and nail to get gas prices down which is an outright outrageous and a huge crock of sh1t! When Trump was president we were refining and producing more oil then anytime in recent history to the point the country was completely self reliaent on oil productions (also provided tons of American jobs) but uncle Joe did he best to blow that up and destroyed America's oil industry. Then Jen Psaki and Kamala Harris, and the absent minded professor lie through their teeth telling the American people they're doing everything they can to low prices at the pump. The truth of the matter is they're ecstatic with these high gas prices, they want shove and push everyone to buy electric cars/hybrid cars and this is one of the ways they're pushing the issue. So these huge gas guzzling 18 wheeler who deliverer food to our retail and grocery stores and just about every other product in the world will just be passing those costs to the consumer. Another issues they're outrageously dishonest about is illegal immigration, they'd tear down the entire boarder if the drastic repercussions it would have on the Democrat Party.

 

[Contempt]

Shoe on Head is a good liberal patriot

Wow, I couldn't even take two minutes of that. I am leaning more and more to the right over recent years but damn, she is 100% correct... that conservapedia shit is cringy as fuck.

 

[SummerStriker]

Wow, I couldn't even take two minutes of that. I am leaning more and more to the right over recent years but damn, she is 100% correct... that conservapedia shit is cringy as fuck.

She might be a liberal but her brand is mostly pooping on all the low hanging fruit of ideocracy eek:s, racists, hypocrites, cancel culture).

 

[skold]

Recognising societal issues and wanting to take steps to solve them and improve your country as a whole is FAR MORE PATRIOTIC than the performative flag-humping "patriotism" of the right.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Recognising societal issues and wanting to take steps to solve them and improve your country as a whole is FAR MORE PATRIOTIC than the performative flag-humping "patriotism" of the right.

This is very true. Trying to improve the country for everyone is more patriotic than flying around a confederate flag screaming at people to go back to their own country even tho they were born in America

 

[A.S. Deep]

You can't, it's anything but patriotic and that's a shame because the full tilt right-wing variation of it in America tends to be heavily tied to race and is exclusionary on multiple other fronts. My own brand of civic nationalism linked to an emphasis on national interests and industry doesn't exist as a political stance much less entity in any meaningful way in the current climate.

I feel you. Regarding political stances, I actually believe "left" and "right" don't exist and are dumb attempts to simplify people's worldviews into neat little categories. Warning, kind of a long rant <45>

For example, a socialist who wants universal healthcare because he is anti-capitalism would be considered left. At the same time, I'm "left" because I'm also pro- universal healthcare and welfare, even though I want them so people have more financial freedom to start businesses and invest (a very pro-capitalist reason). Same political "side," same policy position, but wildly different foundational beliefs.

On the right, you can have someone who wants to cut government programs because he's pro-small government. At the same time, there are many right-wingers who essentially want a pro-Christian government that's bigger and exerts more control socially. Wildly opposite foundational beliefs and views on how big the government should be, yet they're considered on the same "side."

Adding to this nonsense, each "side" has positions that make little sense together, or are even counter to one another. For example, lower taxes and anti-LGBT policies are somehow both "right" despite having nothing to do with each other. And then you have the "right's" stances of small government, individualism, and pulling oneself up by their bootstraps... even though they run counter to its history of using big government to suppress the rights of whole groups such as LGBTs and many minorities. They're somehow indivualist but also very collective in their thinking. And let's not start with positions that switch between sides depending on the decade, such as environmentalism being a right-wing position back in the day, and now it's left-wing.

Honestly, all the mainstream terms we use politically are vague at best. Having the discussion be about foundational beliefs instead of "left/right" would clear things up so much, since we'd know what people really believe and *why* those are their views. Because like you, I feel like I have no real side. Perhaps the style of someone like Kyle Kulinski, since he's also very patriotic? It also doesn't help that many of my personality traits make me appear right-wing, such as the way I talk, my humor, hobbies, etc.

 

[A.S. Deep]

When you dig deeper you generally find that people pick whichever side is closest to their values, but as you said with each individual there is a ton of variance. I used to post in the wr a lot, and I constantly got well you're on the left so you support (insert batshit insane thing here) and my response is usually since when? Did you ever attempt to have a conversation with me and see what I actually think?

Many people wait for someone to voice an opinion that's left or right of center, then they arbitrarily throw them into a group. People are much more complex than that, on average.

I totally agree, dude. See my response to @Deorum about how I believe left and right don't actually exist. I'm not even trolling when I say the right-wing and left-wing are dumb attempts to simplify complex worldviews that can never be put along an axis.

 

[Bargey]

The extreme left and right are both a cancer. Lots of sane people on both sides that are constantly being labeled based on extremists.

The normal left is becoming the extreme left. People like Bill Maher and Tulsi Gabbard will get isolated from them because of their standard views

 

[Krixes]

The left is no longer the left. It's not really fair to clump them all together. I grew up being mostly left-winged, I couldn't stand right winged politics tbh.. Today the left doesn't stand for the same things, it's absolutely crazy what's going on atm. You still have normal, everyday left winged people but the party in general is too progressive.....

 

[M3t4tr0n]

The right tried to overthrow democracy and wanted to lynch their political opponents so they can install their demagogue as a God king earlier in the year.... sounds very patriotic.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

The right tried to overthrow democracy and wanted to lynch their political opponents so they can install their demagogue as a God king earlier in the year.... sounds very patriotic.

And they’re doing it on the state level in 26 states so when they lose the next election the state legislatures can over turn the election and install their own dictator. It’s happening in more than half the states in the country.

The right wing is a full blown fascist organization these days and their main goal is to tamper with elections moving forward. I’ve been calling this since the last presidential election.

very patriotic

 

[fedoriswar37]

Definatly leaning more conservative as I get older. Maybe falls in line more with where I'm at in life now. Although I'm pretty liberal on some issues. Healthcare and housing for one. It's hard to support either party with how deep they've dove into the culture wars lately. Although there's a lot more groupthink on the left and they tend to not be so welcoming if you don't meet a certain criteria .

 

[HARRISON_3]

 

[jrams]

Not sure I'd say any political side is very patriotic lately. Both are patriotic when it is convenient to them.

 

[regmma123]

We watched trump sell the country down the river to putin for 4 years straight while his supporters stood silent

 

[S Class]

SJW/BLM/ANTIFA types are definitely not patriotic.

 

[Makani]

I agree that some come off as brats, especially those who come from upper class families and complain about how terrible it is. However, there are a lot of people who earn minimum wage and work 40+ hours that can barely survive. Imo, they have a reason to be angry. Now you add on top of that the fact that these younger folks have experienced two major economic recessions that made house ownership more of a dream than something achievable and it becomes easy to see why there is so much unrest. A lot of economic policies like universal healthcare, lower tuition costs, higher wages would alleviate a great deal of that pain. A lot of people have these views and I still think they love this country just as much as some right-wingers do.

There is definitely a lot of entitlement that puts people off, and it's primarily coming from a small portion of the left. The average grinder who just wants a little breathing room on his months expenses, and maybe a chance to go to school, has moved past a lot of these social issues in my opinion. I remember when I had a shitty job, I didn't care who kissed who as long as I was getting hours and hopefully a little more money at the end of the month. A black and a white guy working in the same kitchen have a lot more in common that two white guys from different income brackets. The problem is that if you ignore politics for too long, it's even easier to get more bullshit pushed through.

 

[Bald1]

The side that harbors the open borders morons patriotic? You can't claim to be patriotic while indulging those nitwits.

 

[GolovKing]

I guess it depends on how you define "patriotic". If being patriotic simply means you place a lot of importance in empty gestures such as flying the American flag then ya, that would be the right.

However if we take a look at who actually cares for the welfare of their fellow citizens, that group is going to largely consist of people from the left.

Just about every milestone reached in the name of equality, human rights, worker's rights, protections, were spearheaded by 'the left', and fiercely resisted by 'the right'. Full stop.

Look at the response to the pandemic. Which side is generally searching for a solution to the problem? Which side simply decided to politicize the argument and turn it into a dog whistle, without any care whatsoever as to how many of their fellow Americans might die?

Was it the conservatives in 1973 that were more patriotic because they didn't care how many American soldiers died, but they were flying American flags?

Or was it the left, who proclaimed the violence unnecessary, especially in the context of flying poor American kids from the ghetto to Southeast Asia in order to help France continue their expropriation of a sovereign country's resources?

So who's ultimately more patriotic?

The conservative mindset teaches you that selfishness is the ultimate virtue, and I don't see any room for the sacrifice and selflessness that comes with actually being patriotic. The right have simply latched on to a substance-less meaning of the word, where most of them think that saying God bless America and flying a flag means you are patriotic. These are the same people who think that going to church on Sunday makes them Christians. Completely oblivious to the notion that your religion is defined by how you conduct yourself when NOT in church.

And for all of their flaws and similarities to the Conservative party, at least the Democrats occasionally try and make things better for the average citizen. Emphasis on occasionally.

It's pretty simple to me, one side is more ok with burning our flag, our constitution and is less likely to be loyal in the event of war with another country