holyfield's routine

[rEmY]

Enough with there is not enough time in the day nonsense to train all your muscles , thats pure BS , especially seeing training your entire body only takes about 3 hours a week and thats more than enough , an average work-out should be NO longer than 30-45 minutes a day 2 or 4 days a week, if you can't do it in that time-frame you're fucking-off , in that time you can train your upper and lower chest , all three head of your triceps , both heads of the bcieps ,your entire back upper/middle/lower your quads , hamstrings and calves not to mention abs and all three heads of the delts .

And you cannot fully train your whole body for maximum strenght by ignoring fully any muscle group and you cannot get maximum strenght in your arms by proxy , the secondary muscles don't get maximum stimulation in compound movements as they do with direct isolation movements.

Worse case senario you cannot lose anything by doing isolation movements and have everything to gain , litteraly , I'm not saying you should follow what I say , all I'm saying is you shouldn't ignore any muscle group FULLY because all you're doing is limiting yourself.

nobody here is ignoring any muscles groups, you make it sound as if rows and chins dont hit your biceps at all. they might not get 'maximum stimulation' but theyre in there. also, doing simple things such as varying your grip can result in a different training effect.

 

[Funkster]

Enough with there is not enough time in the day nonsense to train all your muscles , thats pure BS , especially seeing training your entire body only takes about 3 hours a week and thats more than enough , an average work-out should be NO longer than 30-45 minutes a day 2 or 4 days a week, if you can't do it in that time-frame you're fucking-off , in that time you can train your upper and lower chest , all three head of your triceps , both heads of the bcieps ,your entire back upper/middle/lower your quads , hamstrings and calves not to mention abs and all three heads of the delts .

Get some reading comprehension, I never said there wasn't enough time in the week to train all your muscles.

If you incorporate all the major compound lifts you can easily cover pretty much all the muscle groups in your body. Unless you're lifting big numbers and hitting sticking points, there's little if any point in using isolation movements as you will already be using assistance lifts (which will mostly be compound as well) to help with your big lifts and should easily be covering all your major muscle groups, so unless you want to introduce something like curls for a specific purpose relating to your MMA training (e.g. curls to help your grappling, shrugs to give you a stronger neck\upper back area) then there really isn't much point.

And you cannot fully train your whole body for maximum strenght by ignoring fully any muscle group and you cannot get maximum strenght in your arms by proxy , the secondary muscles don't get maximum stimulation in compound movements as they do with direct isolation movements.

If this were true then most bodybuilders would probably be nearly on par with powerlifters in terms of strength, but this is the real world and they aren't.

Compound lifts should be the basis of your training as a powerlifter and isolation movements can be used for assistance, but compounds are probably preferable even for that.

Worse case senario you cannot lose anything by doing isolation movements and have everything to gain , litteraly , I'm not saying you should follow what I say , all I'm saying is you shouldn't ignore any muscle group FULLY because all you're doing is limiting yourself.

As I said earlier, I NEVER FUCKING SUGGESTED THAT YOU LEAVE MUSCLE GROUPS OUT COMPLETELY. I don't know where the hell you got that idea from, you can read my posts back over a thousand times and you still won't be able to find me the part where I said that.

 

[TheNerdKing]

As I said earlier, I NEVER FUCKING SUGGESTED THAT YOU LEAVE MUSCLE GROUPS OUT COMPLETELY. I don't know where the hell you got that idea from, you can read my posts back over a thousand times and you still won't be able to find me the part where I said that.

He's illiterate.

The guy assumes that if you aren't doing 52x52 cable curls, you aren't training your biceps.

Therefore you are TOTALLY ignoring the "bicep muscle group...".

Never mind that palms towards chin ups hit your biceps really hard. As does rope climbing. If you do those, you are TOTALLY ignoring your "bicep muscle group..."

And that is what this clown feels will make him the best fighter.

He needs to have HUGE biceps and will do 52x52 cable curls, dumbbell curls, barbell curls, etc do work his "bicep muscle group".

Because he has all the time in the world to get good at fighting by working his "bicep muscle group" with awesome isolation exercises.

Dunno, this guys a dunce or something. No one here is advocating ignoring your arms at all. They just work them by doing compound stuff. chins/pullups/rows/climbing/sparring/rolling/bag work rather than the much more effective fight training of doing 52x52 cable curls like Jun Fan Whatever keeps saying is optimal...

 

[Jun Fan Lee]

Yawn

 

[AndrewI2000]

If I want to improve my grappling, I ask the best BJJ guy in my class for advice. If I want strength training advice, I go to the strongest people I can find. The fact that the strongest people in the world say to stay away from isolation movements is proof enough for me that compound movements are the way to go. We can argue all we want about maximum stimulation and who's not following the proper diet, but why not just see what formula is creating the strongest powerlifters? I know there's been mention of strength training for MMA, but Jun Fan Lee has been speaking only about strength so I thought I'd stick with that.

 

[Jun Fan Lee]

Whats ironic is arguably the best MMA in the world uses some pure isolation movements , I was just watching a video of Wanderlei Silva training and guess what he was doing? seated machine bench presses , cable crossovers , simulated punches using a single cable , one arm dumbell rows , close grip lat pull downs , wide grip lat pull downs , and you guesses it pec-deck , so I guess for all guys who say isolation movements are useless know more than The Axe Murderer

 

[Ted-P]

Whats ironic is arguably the best MMA in the world uses some pure isolation movements , I was just watching a video of Wanderlei Silva training and guess what he was doing? seated machine bench presses , cable crossovers , simulated punches using a single cable , one arm dumbell rows , close grip lat pull downs , wide grip lat pull downs , and you guesses it pec-deck , so I guess for all guys who say isolation movements are useless know more than The Axe Murderer

Those aren't isolation exercises dude. Those are machine and cable exercies. Dumb bell is free weight also.

 

[Ted-P]

, so I guess for all guys who say isolation movements are useless know more than The Axe Murderer

That's also flawed reasoning you have.

Just because someone is lets say really strong does those exercises doesn't make them right or most efficient.

So would you say just because weak person did compound and free weight exercises, that makes the compound and free weight exercises obsolete?

 

[Jun Fan Lee]

Those aren't isolation exercises dude. Those are machine and cable exercies. Dumb bell is free weight also.

Yeah Okay none of them are isolation moevements ,the pec-deck , cable cross overs , and the striaght arm cable pushes simulating punching ,are all isolation movements , the whole point is you have a bunch of guys one here who are 100% certian isolation exercises are useless for MMA , yet its biggest star uses them , I'm sure most of the premiere fighters are as well , but no the Sherdog-know-it-alls know for a fact isolation movements are useless .

 

[slayer36]

look, compound excercises are for the most better then isolation. in the training economy, they offer a lot more. that being said, isolation excercises do, however, have their place. if you have a lagging body part you can use isolation excercises to bring them up. even westside lifters use some isoaltion excercises. so while the majority of lifting should consist of compound lifts, you dont have to avoid isolation like they are the plague. it all depends on what your goals are and how you chose to accomplish them. if you want to supplement your pullups and rows with some curls its not that bad if you have the time.


i didnt post his routine to start a isolation vs. compound war by the way.

 

[Ted-P]

Yeah Okay none of them are isolation moevements , the whole point is you have a bunch of guys one here who are 100% certian isolation exercises are useless for MMA , yet its biggest star uses them , I'm sure most of the premiere fighters are as well , but no the Sherdog-know-it-alls know for a fact isolation movements are useless .

It is rather petty and useless in my opinion, but you are entitled to your opinion. The only explanation you provide for the isolation exercises are "professional fighters do them". More than granted, they could clueless and don't know much about them.

 

[Jun Fan Lee]

Useless

 

[Ted-P]

Useless

Still not addressing my statement. That picture proves nothing.

 

[IliketoFight]

vanderlei is weak

 

[rEmY]

using a specific example of an athlete to reinforce a certain training philosophy is an example of poor logic. does wanderlei succeed in his endeavors due to his weight training? or his skill set/cardio/heart/pure gorilla rage? there are too many factors to say that just because a successful athlete uses certain movements, that their weight training regiment is also correct.

using the same line of logic youre following, i could provide a counterpoint with a good sized list of fighters who have said that they dont even lift weights in the traditional sense: fedor, carlos newton, quinton jackson, etc.

 

[Jun Fan Lee]

using a specific example of an athlete to reinforce a certain training philosophy is an example of poor logic. does wanderlei succeed in his endeavors due to his weight training? or his skill set/cardio/heart/pure gorilla rage? there are too many factors to say that just because a successful athlete uses certain movements, that their weight training regiment is also correct.

using the same line of logic youre following, i could provide a counterpoint with a good sized list of fighters who have said that they dont even lift weights in the traditional sense: fedor, carlos newton, quinton jackson, etc.

I'm not using one example as a trianing philosophy , all I'm using it as an example of is some guys say isolation movements have no use in MMA and to show one of its biggest stars using them proves that at least for him they do , now others may see no value in them and some may not even do conventional weight trainging and thats a personal choice , but obviously Silva feels he gains something from isolation movements and combined with his training its obviously NOT hurting him , so to all the guys who are 100% certain they have no value , lighten-up a bit and see at bare minimum isolation movements can't hurt and have apparent use to some fighters and I was reading an interveiw with Frank Shamrock and he is another who does some isolation movements , and like I said before , I'm sure many more do .

 

[rEmY]

I'm not using one example as a trianing philosophy , all I'm using it as an example of is some guys say isolation movements have no use in MMA and to show one of its biggest stars using them proves that at least for him they do , now others may see no value in them and some may not even do conventional weight trainging and thats a personal choice , but obviously Silva feels he gains something from isolation movements and combined with his training its obviously NOT hurting him , so to all the guys who are 100% certain they have no value , lighten-up a bit and see at bare minimum isolation movements can't hurt and have apparent use to some fighters and I was reading an interveiw with Frank Shamrock and he is another who does some isolation movements , and like I said before , I'm sure many more do .

i agree with you that isolation movements are not always useless, but it all comes down to determining where your weaknesses lie. i dont curl, but i have never felt that my biceps were a weak point. if i did, i would curl. the point is a lot of isolation moves arent necessary simply because a person is not weak in that area.