I've been reading your posts for about a week now and until now I haven't bothered replying, but your persistance in spouting the same crap has now moved me enough to reply.
Jun Fan Lee said:
High rep isolation movements DO NOT make muscles grow , low rep heavy basic compound movements do
It depends on your definition of high reps. Anything around 6-12 reps which is what is considered high reps in weightlifting terms (anything above this being more or less useless for size and definitely useless for strength)
Jun Fan Lee said:
but everyone is under the assumption that these are bodybuilding movements with no purpose other than to get big muscles
Thats exactly what bodybuilding is about, getting big muscles. Sure exercises like curls could be used to train for strength if you lowered the reps and raised the weight, but the weight you would be able to put on the bar would be dramatically less than you could slap on for some heavy rows, which would have the added benefits of training multiple muscle groups and with a lot more weight. If you were to train the way you're suggesting, there just wouldn't be time, as you would have to train each muscle using isolation AS WELL AS compound movements and there just aren't enough hours in the day for most people to fit in this added training and still have time for work, sleep and general relaxation.
Jun Fan Lee said:
in order to gain muscluar size you need the right combo of diet , exercise , rest and training frequency , you're all training with bodybuilding movements however you're not getting bigger only stronger and why? because you're not following a high protein ( up to 200 grams a day ) , medium carb, low fat diet , to gain muscular size , you need to eat every 2 to 3 hours and need to eat a LOT of clean foods ,5000 to upwards to 10,000 calaories a day, and from a gaining muscle size prospective you're overtraining with training in MMA 4 to 5 times a week , but your goal is NOT to build size but strenght and thats exactly why you wouldn't get BIG muscles even if you wanted , not to mention genetic abilities for gaining muscluar size .
Are you fucking kidding me? You think people here don't know what kind of diet they need? You don't seem to have a fucking clue what people here know about lifting and just presume that we're all idiots by default.
As for the MMA, the whole reason that most people here lift is as AN AID TO THEIR MMA in order to make them stronger, they don't do MMA to supplement their lifting. Their priority is MMA and lifting is just a sideshow. Of course it's not the most efficient way to gain strength, but their priority is MMA, not lifting so they do the best they can.
Jun Fan Lee said:
I fully understand that your ultimate goal is muscle strenght and endurance , and these can all be accomplished by using what most of you are already doing , heavy basic compound exercises , but in my opinion its not wise to ignore any muscle group out of fear of getting bigger muscles and you should never ignore any muscle because they all effect one another
You think people here are scared of gaining muscle size at all? Again, you're presuming you know what people here are like without really having a fucking clue. We have some big guys round here that focus purely on powerlifting and don't bother with MMA, go ask Carnal if he's scared of getting big and see what he says.
As for the second part of the quote, you say its best not to ignore and muscle groups and thats exactly why people here advocate compound lifts, because they give you the most bang for your buck in terms of muscles groups per exercise. You're arguing that we should cover every muscle group, but then advocating probably the least effective way to do it (i.e. isolation for each muscle). I know you've advocated compound lifts too, but most people don't have time to do loads of both and so clearly most people choose mostly compound lifts.
Jun Fan Lee said:
sure in most back movements your biceps are doing its share of the work , but you know what ? climbing rope or rowing will NOT give you strenght in your biceps like standing heavy barbell curls will or dumbell curls , and if you make your biceps stronger , it will in turn make your back stronger because you'll be able to row more .
In this case, we'd have to do compound AND isolation movements to cover every single muscle in the body, which is just stupid as hell and massively inefficient in terms of time. Anyway, your biceps and back will be getting stronger just from the Bent-over Row itself, so until you start pulling proper weight and finding sticking points that need breaking, most people don't need any isolation movements, especially if you're also doing things like Deadlifts and Chin-ups as well already.
Jun Fan Lee said:
I'm not saying you should be doing leg-extentsions , pec-deck , cable cross-overs ,etc these movements should be ignored bucause they don't offer the strenght you're looking for
But you are saying that we should do them as you keep arguing for isolation on top of the compound lifts we already do, or are you saying that we should only do curls out of all the isolation movements because they're somehow more useful than the others? If you look at the number of lifts they're involved in, it would be worthless training them using isolation compared with your lower back, hams or triceps which are all involved in a far greater number of big lifts than your biceps are. I would accept your point more if you'd argued for using isolation for the biceps in order to improve your grappling, but you didn't.
Jun Fan Lee said:
but to ignore a muscle group because you think your biceps will get as strong as they would doing rows or climbing rope is just ignorant and foolish, my whole point is you should never directly ignore a muscle because its getting a partial work-out durring another exercise
Apply this argument to every muscle involved in every single compound movement and see how far you get in such a training program. There aren't enough hours in the day.
Jun Fan Lee said:
don't ignore any exercise out of fear of getting bigger muscles , because although you're using bodybuilding exercises you're not following a bodybuilding diet , so you have NO worries about getting massive , doing what you're doing.
You don't know shit about what people here do or don't know, you've proved that repeatedly in this post alone.