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Holocaust survivors

Rusk said:
5 million Slavs died in concentration camps, but nobody in the west seems to care
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There are people trying to get the claimed deaths of 4 million Ukrainians at the hands of the Russians via forced starvation recognized as well but it looks like the Russians and others would prefer to sweep it under the rug.

http://holodomorct.org/history.html

That's the thing when it comes to history. The powers try to change it to suit whatever agenda they have because they know that what people learn about the the past affects how they see the world today.

Orwell had a good quote on it

"he who controls the present controls the past, he who controls the past controls the future"
 
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LionExMachina said:
It's not that I don't care, it's that I didn't know until you posted that fact here right now.
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Wikipedia World War II. Not trying to be a smartass. You can literally read for days about the different things that happened.
 
Scrody said:
No you're not. The holocaust of the jews gets more attention because the Germans had facilities set up to kill them wholesale. While the Chinese and the Russians took a much more significant amount of casualties, they weren't being killed in that same fashion.
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give me a break, make all the excuses you want.
 
Hollywood Nicky said:
that's kind of the point, the 5 million who died aren't shoved down our throat.
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The German /Russian war was truly a fight to the death. The Jews never had a chance. They didn't have a military to defend themselves with. If you didn't know that tidbit that Rusk posted, that's your own fault for focusing on the Jews so much.
 
It's a combination of several reasons:

-Genocide is THE worst kind of atrocity. Stalin and Mao's killings targeted mostly political enemies, not racial/ethnic ones.

-The scale and manner was unprecedented. To kill 6 million in about the same number of years takes dedicated, scientific, and highly organized killing.

-It took place during what's by far the most important event of the 20th century for the US- WWII.

-Its victims are now extremely wealthy and powerful.
 
A lot of it ACTUALLY has to do with the fact that Germany openly acknowledges and tries to repent on what they did, while Russia/China/other nations are hiding the shit they did.

Also, again, 35% of a religion was wiped out by one group of people. I don't think that can be overstated
 
Scrody said:
The German /Russian war was truly a fight to the death. The Jews never had a chance. They didn't have a military to defend themselves with. If you didn't know that tidbit that Rusk posted, that's your own fault for focusing on the Jews so much.
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it's 5 million people, other genocides have been horrid too yet you seem to be conditioned to think the jewish holocaust is somehow worse. i just don't, i think they are all equally horrid. any time millions of people are murdered its horrid.
 
Hollywood Nicky said:
it's 5 million people, other genocides have been horrid too yet you seem to be conditioned to think the jewish holocaust is somehow worse. i just don't, i think they are all equally horrid. any time millions of people are murdered its horrid.
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Yeah...that...that's what I said.
 
Scrody said:
Wikipedia World War II. Not trying to be a smartass. You can literally read for days about the different things that happened.
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I know, cool. And please understand I'm not trying to get on your case.

I just found out from the Russian poster; and I'm thinking to myself: "Five million? Fucking hell- thats a lot!"

But there aren't any movies, novels, marches, and days commemorating what happened to the Slavs.

I haven't heard my current or any previous Prime Minister or any other world leader say how terrible it was that five million Slav's died in a concentration camps same way jews did.

So perhaps jews have achieved a monopoly on human suffering through being more organized and passionate about never letting it happen again. And while I'm not implying that there is a nefarious motive for them doing so, others may see it as so.
 
LionExMachina said:
With respect:

So it's not about how many get killed, it's how you kill them?

Would you rather be a jew in a gas chamber, or a Tutsi in a burning church?

How does it make a difference? A life is a life.

How does making facilities for the mass slaughter of innocent jews make their deaths any more tragic then some African kid getting a machete to the face, or an Armenian slowly starving to death?

That kind of thinking breeds resentment among certain folk.

And feeds the bigotry of others.
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May I try to explain this (although I might be totally wrong).

In the mid 20th century, the Germans were an advanced nation. You can say that in the eve of WWII they were one of the top nations in Europe and the West.

The Chinese, Japanese, Africans etc. we're considered to be below the white people. So them performing genocide was "accepted". The Germans on the other way? No way.

And I think that is the main reason there is such emphasis on the holocaust.

Look at the killings done today in Africa. Almost no one gives a crap. (Guess where all those refugees are fleeing to).
 
IDL said:
There are people trying to get the claimed deaths of 4 million Ukrainians at the hands of the Russians via forced starvation recognized as well but it looks like the Russians and others would prefer to sweep it under the rug.

http://holodomorct.org/history.html

That's the thing when it comes to history. The powers try to change it to suit whatever agenda they have because they know that what people learn about the world of the past affects how they see the world today.
Click to expand...

Its actually a complicated issue, Russians were starving as well, and ukranian communists were very much involved in this too. Actually Ukrainians were a huge part of SU, they were involved in every good and bad thing SU had done, and Ukrainians even ruled SU for 30 years. But now they trying to present themselves as victims of SU "colonization". So its first and for most a political issue for both Ukraine and Russia, and its all dirty and hypocritical.
 
Jukai said:
A lot of it ACTUALLY has to do with the fact that Germany openly acknowledges and tries to repent on what they did, while Russia/China/other nations are hiding the shit they did.
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True. But Germany also lost.
 
Rusk said:
Its actually a complicated issue, Russians were starving as well, and ukranian communists were very much involved in this too. Actually Ukrainians were a huge part of SU, they were involved in every good and bad thing SU had done, and Ukrainians even ruled SU for 30 years. But now they trying to present themselves as victims of SU "colonization". So its first and for most a political issue for both Ukraine and Russia, and its all dirty and hypocritical.
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Not surprising if that's the case. History is very political and always more complex than any one side will tell you. Really the only way to get any resemblance of a clear picture is to get as many view points together and hash it all out.
 
IDL said:
Not surprising if that's the case. History is very political and always more complex than any one side will tell you. Really the only way to get any resemblance of a clear picture is to get as many view points together and hash it all out.
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This is correct, but apparently majority don't understand this, its easier for them to view the world in black and white.
 
LionExMachina said:
I know, cool. And please understand I'm not trying to get on your case.

I just found out from the Russian poster; and I'm thinking to myself: "Five million? Fucking hell- thats a lot!"

But there aren't any movies, novels, marches, and days commemorating what happened to the Slavs.

I haven't heard my current or any previous Prime Minister or any other world leader say how terrible it was that five million Slav's died in a concentration camps same way jews did.

So perhaps jews have achieved a monopoly on human suffering through being more organized and passionate about never letting it happen again. And while I'm not implying that there is a nefarious motive for them doing so, others may see it as so.
Click to expand...

I think a big reason why the suffering of other groups is ignored is because of the Cold War. You don't want to start feeling compassion towards a potential enemy. I'm sure in Russia there are tons of movies and novels about the Eastern Front. It's just not common knowledge in the West because we had our own reasons for fighting, the holocaust being one of the biggest ones.
 
Possum Jenkins said:
It's a combination of several reasons:

-Genocide is THE worst kind of atrocity. Stalin and Mao's killings targeted mostly political enemies, not racial/ethnic ones.

-The scale and manner was unprecedented. To kill 6 million in about the same number of years takes dedicated, scientific, and highly organized killing.

-It took place during what's by far the most important event of the 20th century for the US- WWII.

-Its victims are now extremely wealthy and powerful.
Click to expand...

Stalin had 20 million political enemies? Mao purged roughly 40 million over 4 years, most of which were political enemies?

C'mon dude, you are smarter than that. Mao and Stalin were just as bad a Hitler.
 
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