Holly Holm Disappointment

[kpt018]

Unbelievably, all three judges gave Tate a 10-8 for that earlier submission attempt. Someone posted the scorecards, it was going to be a draw.

Thanks man, didn't see that. Awful!

 

[synyster]

I will always have a special place for her after the ronda fight... But ducking Borg is mad wack yo

 

[Fergelmince]

Unbelievably, all three judges gave Tate a 10-8 for that earlier submission attempt. Someone posted the scorecards, it was going to be a draw.

In America 48-46 is not a draw.

 

[Jay_Winter]

Considering the hype on these forums, she was disappointing by those standards. I didn't care either way. The forums seem to prematurely shoot their load, so to speak, when new champions are crowned. So many people are going "THEY WON, SO THEY WILL WIN FOREVER" and I have no idea where this optimism is coming from. Is it just the desire to have an invincible super champion to fill the void Fedor left? Whatever.

 

[chinarice]

Oh come your being stupid Cyborg never been beat in MMA since her first fight so shes just gonna lose to Holly who has 0 ground game stfu lol. Miesha is flat out better than Cyborg lol your trolling like crazy now lol.

Who the hell does Cyborg fight? A bunch of tomato cans. If she can come to the UFC and do to Holly, Rousey, Tate or Cat, what she does to those clueless girls in TomatocanVille then I will be impressed. Until then, she is a big fish in an extremely tiny pond.

 

[GBcrazy]

She's a great striker. That about it. Her and Conor learned the same thing that evening. They need to work on their ground game and if they are a true, gifted athlete then they will prevail and come back stronger than before.

Time will tell us whether either of them are gifted athletes, or just great strikers.

Except Conor lost on the feet, we can't even judge much of his ground game, even a Demian Maia could be RNC'd if he was rocked. Conor needs to work on his defenses first, he is a phenomenal offensive boxer, but he remains very hittable.

 

[knock_you_out]

Holly looked terrible fighting Meisha. She reverted to her tactical, point-fighting, boring style. The most exiting part of the fight was when Meisha had her back and was choking the life out of her.

 

[locust rising]

She turned down an inter gender fight.

 

[The Big Bang]

What a disappointment Holly was for her fans.

Beat Ronda and Sherdog was flooded with topics about the new queen, she would tool anyone. Then she got put to sleep, and now, she ducked Cyborg, one of the triumphs her fans had over Ronda, because the queen would never duck anyone.

One of the biggest fall from grace we ever witnessed.

Spare me.

Holly is a super classy/super chill human being.

Holly destroyed Roundblub.

DE-STROYED.

In the hearts of NON-WHINY sherbros everywhere, she will be forever appreciated.

 

[Captain Herb]

In America 48-46 is not a draw.

If Holm/Tate was:

10-9
8-10
10-9
10-9
9-10

I believe that adds up to 47-47 although math is not my strong suit.

 

[Mau]

I cannot fathom why any top contender would agree to fight Cyborg in her first UFC fight (in Curitiba, Brazil) at catchweight. Please explain the benefit that this would provide for a top 5 ranked bantamweight?

At 13K posts, you are obviously hardcore, but I honestly have to ask, would you be upset if championship belts were dissolved, and all fights were strictly for entertainment value with no real "ultimate goal"?

It quite honestly seems that you far emphasize the entertainment value of MMA over any sport value.

I see no benefit, like there was no benefit in Ronda fighting her either, but it was, and is, talked ad nauseam, I just wanted to see the world burn.

About the other question, my motivations to watch don't matter here.

 

[Supernaut]

I'm not disappointed. She would be crazy to take the Cyborg fight before she exhausted any/ all chances of getting a rematch with Tate, imo.

 

[Fergelmince]

If Holm/Tate was:

10-9
8-10
10-9
10-9
9-10

I believe that adds up to 47-47 although math is not my strong suit.

How are you saying the 5th round would've played out if Tate didn't get the RNC?

 

[Wayweary]

The thing is, I think Cyborg's power and finishing ability are on the overrated side. You're talking like if she hits an opponent it's over, but she took 3 and 4 rounds to finish Coenen and 3 to finish tiny Akano, the majority of her quick finishes are over, well, scared cans who barely qualify as professional fighters.

When Holm got knocked out by Mathis in boxing it took a lot of punishment from Mathis who is known as one of the hardest hitting female boxers to do it and Baars was able to take shots from Cyborg just fine, yet Cyborg will smash Holm (and every other woman) if her fist so much as brushes their chins? Why is Cyborg's power so mythologized? The way you and others describe her physicality makes her sound almost like a superhuman being, I can't think of any male fighter who is treated even close to that way aside from maybe Rumble, but even he isn't considered near unbeatable. Cyborg is the last 'invincible' fighter despite a paper thin resume compared to others who aren't considered as overwhelming.

I think Amanda Nunes hits just as hard as Cyborg looking at her starchings of Budd and McMann and all her 1st/2nd round T/KO finishes, but we don't talk with such awe and reverence about her because she's actually lost (well Cyborg has lost too but not recently) while fighting quality competition.

I really think Cyborg's reputation is undeservedly boosted a lot by beating cans, I've made a comparison to Brandon Thatch before too - Thatch looked like an unstoppable monster smashing low level competition, but proved to be far from that against real opponents. Granted Cyborg probably isn't as bad relative to the BW division as Thatch relative to the WW division, but should we really put so much stock in pummeling randoms?

Baars is a bigger fighter than Holm and is long as hell so was able to avoid Cyborg's power to a great extent, plus she is a really slick fighter. Her credentials are as good as Holm's but in a more complete combat sport than boxing and they were fighting on her turf, in a ring with the big gloves and everything. Holm has headkick KO ability but Baars is dangerous with kicks, knees and more all the time; with Holly, you sort of have to let your guard down. If the fight between Cyborg and Baars had been in a cage, Jorina would have been punished badly.

I don't think Nunes hits like Cyborg. For one, she isn't as big. And there is nothing like the sense of urgency to get Nunes to the ground for her opponents as there is with Cyborg. With Justino, it's either you get the fight to the mat or you are on burrowed time. Also, when you watch their punches land, shots that don't seem like they are that flush are quite effective for Cyborg. Nunes tends to get top control and GnP a lot more.

Women tend to have a greater variety in their physicality among female fighters than male fighters do in my experience. You aren't likely to find as big a difference in men's MMA because the talent pool is deeper and the weaker guys get weeded out much quicker or they don't start at all. In fact, you won't see an average guy in MMA for the most part but many of the WMMA fighters are what I would call ordinary in terms of athleticism and physicality. As far as the evidence of Cyborg's physical superiority, I guess you just have to see it. I'm not that interested in trying to trudge out her record in great detail. You don't need to, in my opinion. Just watch the fights. I never said Cyborg is unbeatable. I think no one in MMA that I know of is going to stand up to trading shots with her, though. She's not a good match up for either Holm or Tate. I'd fear for their career and safety in there.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

I'm disappointed she didn't solidly her title reign but that's MMA. I have no problem with her turning down the Cyborg fight right now.

It was short notice and she thinks she can get an instant rematch against Tate. It wasn't smart business.

 

[BigMuffler]

As far as the evidence of Cyborg's physical superiority, I guess you just have to see it. I'm not that interested in trying to trudge out her record in great detail. You don't need to, in my opinion. Just watch the fights. I never said Cyborg is unbeatable. I think no one in MMA that I know of is going to stand up to trading shots with her, though. She's not a good match up for either Holm or Tate. I'd fear for their career and safety in there.

The problem is, she's showing that physicality against mostly low level, one step above hobbyist fighters who probably aren't in as good shape as the more dedicated fighters at the top of the BW division. Even her best opponent Coenen isn't known as being physically strong and was also being overpowered by Carmouche.

You didn't say she was unbeatable but you said she would most likely crush Ronda and you'd fear for Holm and Tate against her so who do you think would have a decent chance of beating her? If no one around has much of a chance isn't she 'near unbeatable' against current competition as I wrote? Also that 'fearing for their career and safety' kind of comment is really exaggerated considering that Coenen fought her twice and is still fighting, Tweet is still fighting, Finney who was beaten worse than anyone is still fighting etc. so it's exactly the kind of unwarranted mythologizing of Cyborg I'm talking about.

 

[Thuckey]

In terms of legacy Ronda ultimately triumphed her in the end. Holly, although destroyed Ronda, currently is looking to just be another one-hit-wonder-upset-underdog in mma among the likes of Matt Serra. But it is still early, she can still pick up the pieces and taste success once more - but so can Ronda. The pieces of the board have been reset, it's time for another play in the division. Who will you be rooting for?

And a new challenger approaches, a Cyborg no less. Suddenly WMMA becomes a little more interesting.

 

[knock_you_out]

Holly "One-Title-Defence" Holm

 

[John Wick]

It still amazes me that Sherdog her attractive

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

 

[Captain Herb]

How are you saying the 5th round would've played out if Tate didn't get the RNC?

I would think it would have gone to Tate but it's a good point, if the judges were willing to give the second round a 10-8, maybe at least 2 would have given the last round to Tate* at 10-8 which would have given her the decision. I believe Tate needed a finish to win but apparently others disagree.

* edit: had she maintained control until the bell.