Holly Holm Disappointment

[Rematch]

She got KTFO in 13 seconds? Oh no she was winning the fight until the last round when Tate got the submission. I mean I like Tate more than Holm but this is just stupid. I do love how all the bitter Rousey fans have come crawling back out from the shadows after their queen was humiliated.

Styles make fights Tate is better on the ground than Holm simple as that. Tate is also tough as nails and never gives up so one mistake and she'll take that opportunity.

Wow. You're really dumb.

 

[Captain Herb]

Speaking of Marloes, Cyborg couldn't do much to her when they hit the ground, and inevitably stood them up every time because of it; if Marloes hadn't slipped up and got tagged the fight might have gone on to a fifth round and a decision because of Cyborg's difficulty in finishing Marloes on the ground.

Holy crap, you're a fucking lunatic if you believe anything you wrote, or you just didn't see the fights. Cyborg DESTROYED Coenen from pillar to post in both fights. You're right, Coenen is a grappling specialist, she landed ZERO take downs against Cyborg. I lost count of the number of times Cyborg slammed her to the mat. Coenen never once escaped bottom position and Cyborg dropped absolutely BRUTAL nonstop GnP. The only times it was stood up is when Cyborg told her to stand back up. Coenen hit Cyborg with her best shots and never fazed her once. Cyborg landed at will on the feet and had her hurt numerous times. Coenen is a game fighter and she's no can, but she got outclassed by several levels in those fights. If you can watch those fights and say Cyborg is no threat to Meisha, you're dreaming.

 

[Fantomas187]

MMA wrestling just means 'effective wrestling for MMA'. Holm also had 100% TDD and Tate took her down twice along with all her prior accomplishments using wrestling in MMA, her wrestling works.

This is kind of like people saying Fedor had poor striking because he didn't look the most technical, but he had good effective MMA striking, it worked.

I guarentee she would be way more effective with a good level change. Her penetration would be way better. I'm not saying she's not a good fighter. She's very tough, tenacious and finds a way to win. But her technique is flawed.

The fundamental techniques don't change whether it's wrestling, MMA, boxing or whatever.

 

[BigMuffler]

I guarentee she would be way more effective with a good level change. Her penetration would be way better. I'm not saying she's not a good fighter. She's very tough, tenacious and finds a way to win. But her technique is flawed.

The fundamental techniques don't change whether it's wrestling, MMA, boxing or whatever.

Maybe she could improve it, but I'd think if this was as big an issue as you're making out, after 10 years of fighting mainly as a 'wrestler' her boyfriend or coaches would have pointed it out. Maybe her 'poor' wrestling that won the state championship and the BW title twice is better than it looks to you lol.

 

[Azure]

What a disappointment Holly was for her fans.

Beat Ronda and Sherdog was flooded with topics about the new queen, she would tool anyone. Then she got put to sleep, and now, she ducked Cyborg, one of the triumphs her fans had over Ronda, because the queen would never duck anyone.

One of the biggest fall from grace we ever witnessed.

What a disappointment you are to the human race. Get a little perspective she was only unbeatable to the sheep that didn't realize that she is a good fighter that had the fight of her life against Ronda and was not the instant GOAT.

 

[Irenaeus]

Holm's awesome, and has been awesome for a very long time. Shut the fuck up.

 

[Fantomas187]

Maybe she could improve it, but I'd think if this was as big an issue as you're making out, after 10 years of fighting mainly as a 'wrestler' her boyfriend or coaches would have pointed it out. Maybe her 'poor' wrestling that won the state championship and the BW title twice is better than it looks to you lol.

I suspect it's probably a striking issue rather than a wrestling one actually. As you say, she has an extensive wrestling background. She feels like she needs to be upright to strike. When she level changes she stays upright with her head up. Other people have pointed out how she tends to fight with her chin up. By keeping her head up on her level change it puts her posture out of alignment. If you watch gsp when he shoots, his head is down and his back is curved. This means his weight is forward correctly and he is in strong position. Meisha probably does this when she wrestles, but not when she fights.

 

[WarKO]

She's a great striker. That about it. Her and Conor learned the same thing that evening. They need to work on their ground game and if they are a true, gifted athlete then they will prevail and come back stronger than before.

Time will tell us whether either of them are gifted athletes, or just great strikers.

Except Conor got outstruck that night and collapsed. Holly lost w clinches and TD

 

[KillerElite]

Tate doesn't even know how to do a proper level change. Her wrestling is not great at all.

Not True.
She mixes it with here BJJ.

 

[elanimalsantana]

Too many people on these boards accuse fighters of ducking which is idiotic in 99+% of the cases. But then again there is a reason someone coined the term "shertarded ".

 

[Wayweary]

The problem is, she's showing that physicality against mostly low level, one step above hobbyist fighters who probably aren't in as good shape as the more dedicated fighters at the top of the BW division. Even her best opponent Coenen isn't known as being physically strong and was also being overpowered by Carmouche.

You didn't say she was unbeatable but you said she would most likely crush Ronda and you'd fear for Holm and Tate against her so who do you think would have a decent chance of beating her? If no one around has much of a chance isn't she 'near unbeatable' against current competition as I wrote? Also that 'fearing for their career and safety' kind of comment is really exaggerated considering that Coenen fought her twice and is still fighting, Tweet is still fighting, Finney who was beaten worse than anyone is still fighting etc. so it's exactly the kind of unwarranted mythologizing of Cyborg I'm talking about.

I said she'd crush Ronda in striking if Ronda didn't get an immediate TD. Rousey wouldn't last a round and change the way she did against Holm with that stand up of hers. She has very poor head movement and would eat a big shot and go down. Ronda could win if she managed an early TD which isn't nearly outside the realm of possibility.

Coenen is a pretty formidable girl. The girls laid out by Cyborg are still fighting but getting concussed is never good for your health and getting trashed on a big stage is not good for your career - it definitely takes a lot of the shine away and limits your potential stock. Is that really debatable?

 

[BigMuffler]

Coenen is a pretty formidable girl. The girls laid out by Cyborg are still fighting but getting concussed is never good for your health and getting trashed on a big stage is not good for your career - it definitely takes a lot of the shine away and limits your potential stock. Is that really debatable?

Yeah but that could happen against any fighter, it's already happened to them before - in boxing in Holm's case - I guess the main point of contention is that you act like it's almost a foregone conclusion against Cyborg which seems hyperbolic IMO given how unproven she really is.

 

[Clippy]

I love holly and was disappointed she couldn't keep the belt

And now it set up a triangle of meisha, Ronda and Holly rematches forever.

 

[Wayweary]

Yeah but that could happen against any fighter, it's already happened to them before - in boxing in Holm's case - I guess the main point of contention is that you act like it's almost a foregone conclusion against Cyborg which seems hyperbolic IMO given how unproven she really is.

In MMA neither girl has been entirely trashed except Tate a long time ago when she was pretty much a brand new fighter and was participating in a single-night tournament. In any case, it would be a big setback for a while, considering the way I foresee they'd likely be dispatched if they were to lose.

Ok, I get it: you don't think she's as good as other people because you don't respect her record. I don't understand why you keep reiterating it.

 

[GBcrazy]

I'm disappointed as well. Saying she will accept Miesha or Ronda, but not interested in Cyborg, that is some bullshit lol. She already beat ronda and she certainly doesn't deserve an instant rematch on a reign of 0 defenses. What the HELL

 

[BigMuffler]

Ok, I get it: you don't think she's as good as other people because you don't respect her record. I don't understand why you keep reiterating it.

If I didn't put that last part starting with 'IMO' I thought you might ask why I found it hyperbolic and/or explain why it doesn't seem hyperbolic to you.

 

[Wayweary]

If I didn't put that last part starting with 'IMO' I thought you might ask why I found it hyperbolic and/or explain why it doesn't seem hyperbolic to you.

Again, you've made your opinion abundantly clear:

Honestly I think the main point of disagreement between me and reasonable Cyborg supporters (like yourself) is that you place a lot of stock in Cyborg's size/strength advantage and I place less in it. I think David can beat and be better than Goliath.

The problem is, she's showing that physicality against mostly low level, one step above hobbyist fighters who probably aren't in as good shape as the more dedicated fighters at the top of the BW division.

Also that 'fearing for their career and safety' kind of comment is really exaggerated...so it's exactly the kind of unwarranted mythologizing of Cyborg I'm talking about.

I guess the main point of contention is that you act like it's almost a foregone conclusion against Cyborg which seems hyperbolic IMO given how unproven she really is.

And as far as responding to it, I've already said this:

As far as the evidence of Cyborg's physical superiority, I guess you just have to see it. I'm not that interested in trying to trudge out her record in great detail. You don't need to, in my opinion. Just watch the fights. I never said Cyborg is unbeatable. I think no one in MMA that I know of is going to stand up to trading shots with her, though.

 

[BigMuffler]

Again, you've made your opinion abundantly clear:









And as far as responding to it, I've already said this:

You quoted all that to respond to 6 extra words thrown in for clarity? Silly how frustrated you're getting lol.

 

[ricioyourdoom]

Holm is the worst fighter on the ground yet Ronda couldn't do shit to her. Ronda must be even worse on the ground.

She wasnt able to get her on the ground ffs, Holm is a fucking beast one of the strongest girls I have seen in MMA.
Taking her down is no easy task.

Google Holly Holm steroids, have a look at the pictures it pulls up.

 

[BigMuffler]

Google Holly Holm steroids, have a look at the pictures it pulls up.

Uh oh Lord of Bones is reading, about to be triggered... TBF Rond has some suspicious pictures too, while 'The Little Cupcake That Could' just looks like a random B-movie actress next to Holm and Cyborg.