Holly Holm Disappointment

The more interviews and appearances I see with Holy the more I like her. How a fighter conducts themselves outside the cage matters to me and she is second to none when it comes to class, focus, and respect.

So while I'm happy with Miesha as champ, I want to see Holly do well and if she gets the belt back I'll be happy for Holly too.

I think Nunes should get the next shot at the belt but we know how that goes. If they are going to make Miesha wait for Ronda, then I'd like to see Holly fight Nunes.
 
I don't think she has the strength to deal with Cyborg on the ground and she's not going to get RNCd like Holm. You can claim that Tate is the more skilled grappler, which I'm not at all sure is true, but Cyborg would be the more effective grappler due to her size and strength advantage. Again, she doesn't have any holes in her game and is the larger woman. The only thing that could cause her problems is an advanced technical striker with tdd.

Sara was stronger and more muscular than Miesha, plus an Olympic wrestler to boot, and Miesha outgrappled her. Marloes was bigger than Miesha and like the GOAT WMMA grappler, and Miesha took the title from her. Speaking of Marloes, Cyborg couldn't do much to her when they hit the ground, and inevitably stood them up every time because of it; if Marloes hadn't slipped up and got tagged the fight might have gone on to a fifth round and a decision because of Cyborg's difficulty in finishing Marloes on the ground.
 
I think Nunes should get the next shot at the belt but we know how that goes.

I like Nunes but I like this post a lot. Grappling, chin and cardio>power and explosiveness 8/10.

WARcake
 
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Sara was stronger and more muscular than Miesha, plus an Olympic wrestler to boot, and Miesha outgrappled her. Marloes was bigger than Miesha and like the GOAT WMMA grappler, and Miesha took the title from her. Speaking of Marloes, Cyborg couldn't do much to her when they hit the ground, and inevitably stood them up every time because of it; if Marloes hadn't slipped up and got tagged the fight might have gone on to a fifth round and a decision because of Cyborg's difficulty in finishing Marloes on the ground.

Yeah I'm thinking Meesh would take Cyborg down quite a bit more than non-wrestler Marloes.
 
I wouldn't say she 'sucks' but boring maybe. Hollyoto Macholm.

Kind of curious how this went in boxing.

Lyoto's style is entertaining and he actually has multiple finishes in the UFC. Holly, not so much.
 
Styles make fights, wrestling is anathema to strikers like Holly Home whereas Cyborg is mainly another less technical striker which is more up Home's alley. I'd pick Holly over Borg and Holly actually lost to Tate.

That and read the rest of that discussion. Honestly I think the main point of disagreement between me and reasonable Cyborg supporters (like yourself) is that you place a lot of stock in Cyborg's size/strength advantage and I place less in it. I think David can beat and be better than Goliath. And at 140 the weight difference between Cyborg and Holly would be like 5 lbs, come on. I don't think the 5 lbs will be more problematic for HH than dat rassling.

PS. the weight difference between Tate and Holm may have been greater than the one between Holm and Cyborg at 140. The highest weight I've heard Cyborg come in the cage was 168 at 145, at 140 she might come in at 163? While Holm has cut from 157 to 135, so 157 Holm vs 163 Cyborg. Meanwhile Tate is 148, so there might have been up to a 9 lb difference between Tate and Holm vs a 6 lb difference between Holm and Cyborg at 140. But Meesh... is just that good.
Holm is not going to hurt Cyborg like Cyborg can hurt her, striking-wise, so I don't give her that much of an advantage on the feet; I could see her outpointing Cyborg if she was lucky but not KO'ing her like she did Rousey and the much less dangerous and smaller women she's fought before coming to the UFC. Cyborg has a tested chin which stood up to Baars in a kickboxing match for five rounds where as it appears to me that Ronda has a completely ordinary chin at best, aiding in Holm's victory. Meanwhile, I don't see any female fighter's chin standing up to Cyborg; if her fist brushes your jaw, you tend to go down or at least go reeling. Ronda doesn't like getting hit and doesn't respond well to it, claiming to be on queer street since the first strike Holm landed (and as an aside, I think Cyborg would murder Rousey if she didn't get an IMMEDIATE takedown). Cyborg is also not a rudimentary striker like Rousey is, even if she isn't as technical as Holm (despite what a lot of so-called WMMA fans claimed leading up to the Holm fight regarding Rousey's boxing) and even Ronda landed a few shots; if Cyborg did so, and I'd wager she would more than likely to be able to, Holly would be in trouble. In terms of grappling, I would even put Cyborg at least on par with the grappling physicality of Tate, if not ahead, due to her overwhelming size and strength advantage over her. Look at their respective fights against Marloes. Cyborg rag-dolled her and punished her with a pretty conservative, grappling-centric GnP assault where as Tate pulled off one of her patented, underdog victories and never seemed her physical superior. I think Cyborg could potentially do the same to Holm, only worse. On the feet, she has the power and size to really make Holm pay for any mistake and she if she got her down, it would be bad news (imagine if Miesha was much bigger, stronger and vicious in round 2 against Holm). Holm would need to fight a perfect fight in order to pull that one off but I think she could likely beat Tate if they fought again, even though I'm a big fan of Tate's and have been since she was in Strikeforce. Being a fan of both Miesha and Holm, I don't want to see either of them against Cyborg.

Now, you seem to be operating on the 140 catch weight which may shave a little off of Cyborg's physicality, but not as much as five lbs of lean muscle. I think Cyborg is just going to get leaner and cut more rather than losing much muscle mass. She'll still be bigger and stronger than any other 140 lb female fighter if she makes weight.
 
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Sara was stronger and more muscular than Miesha, plus an Olympic wrestler to boot, and Miesha outgrappled her. Marloes was bigger than Miesha and like the GOAT WMMA grappler, and Miesha took the title from her. Speaking of Marloes, Cyborg couldn't do much to her when they hit the ground, and inevitably stood them up every time because of it; if Marloes hadn't slipped up and got tagged the fight might have gone on to a fifth round and a decision because of Cyborg's difficulty in finishing Marloes on the ground.
Miesha outgrappled her, but I don't think she really outwrestled her. She managed to pull of the scrambles; she didn't overwhelm her with her wrestling.

Cyborg did plenty of punishing of Marloes on the ground and flung her to the ground quite often in their second fight. Cyborg dominated Marloes twice. Miesha got more of a plucky underdog victory against her, albeit of course backed up by a lot of skill.
 
Agreed that one of the bigger things Holm had going for her was saying yes to fighting Cyborg.

I knew just saying yes and actually signing and stepping in the cage are 2 totally different things.
 
Cyborg can't make 135. You fucks gotta stop bashing fighters for not moving up in weight.
 
Not really. She was beating Tate on the cards, but hey, give her credit too. She fought patiently and was superior on the ground.

Fans need to stick to reality. Rousey's striking was always sloppy and her defense blew, but no one could make her pay for Holm. But it was just a matter of time.

And I can't blame anyone for not taking a fight with that circus freak Cyborg.

Exactly. Wait until you see the mess she will make of Leslie Smith and then we can possibly reconsider
 
Nice to see the Ronda fans getting their confidence back and I guess part of that is the opportunity to knock Holm.

Hang on though if Holly really is scurred to face Cyborg what does that say about Ronda? Holly certainly wasn't afraid of Ronda yet she's scared of Cris? Do Ronda fans really think Cyborg is so much more fearsome than their gal?

Btw I'll be supporting Leslie in the fight although the Baars scrap suggests that no-one really has the power to out brawl Cyborg.
 
I think people bought into the hype when she biffed Honda because they listened to her hype...
As happens so many times here, a fighter got an instant fan base that hadn't really been paying attention, and got crowned the Next Unbeatable Champion.
 
I am still a Holly fan and always will be. I never could stand Ronda and never will. I hope Ronda gets KO'd in all of her future fights.
You are a fan of no one, you're just a pathetic hater.
 
Holly Holm is all bark no bite!!! she lied to the people thats a fact as it stands right now. if in the near future she fights Cyborg ok. maybe she is promised Miesha tate rematch, if that is the case than i can understand she choosing the belt/PPV points above a fight with cyborg. If Holm isnt fighting Tate or Rousey next and ducking Cyborg, we have to be reall about it and call her a liar.

Just like we are critical of rousey regarding Cyborg. it is what it is...
 
I cannot fathom why any top contender would agree to fight Cyborg in her first UFC fight (in Curitiba, Brazil) at catchweight. Please explain the benefit that this would provide for a top 5 ranked bantamweight?

At 13K posts, you are obviously hardcore, but I honestly have to ask, would you be upset if championship belts were dissolved, and all fights were strictly for entertainment value with no real "ultimate goal"?

It quite honestly seems that you far emphasize the entertainment value of MMA over any sport value.
 
I cannot fathom why any top contender would agree to fight Cyborg in her first UFC fight (in Curitiba, Brazil) at catchweight. Please explain the benefit that this would provide for a top 5 ranked bantamweight?

At 13K posts, you are obviously hardcore, but I honestly have to ask, would you be upset if championship belts were dissolved, and all fights were strictly for entertainment value with no real "ultimate goal"?

It quite honestly seems that you far emphasize the entertainment value of MMA over any sport value.


Nothing here makes sense in regards to Cyborg on these forums. They will tell you beating Carano and Coenen 5 yrs ago means more than anything anyone could ever do,even though the current WMMA champion has victories over Holm and Coenen.
 
Holm is not going to hurt Cyborg like Cyborg can hurt her, striking-wise, so I don't give her that much of an advantage on the feet; I could see her outpointing Cyborg if she was lucky but not KO'ing her like she did Rousey and the much less dangerous and smaller women she's fought before coming to the UFC. Cyborg has a tested chin which stood up to Baars in a kickboxing match for five rounds where as it appears to me that Ronda has a completely ordinary chin at best, aiding in Holm's victory. Meanwhile, I don't see any female fighter's chin standing up to Cyborg; if her fist brushes your jaw, you tend to go down or at least go reeling. Ronda doesn't like getting hit and doesn't respond well to it, claiming to be on queer street since the first strike Holm landed (and as an aside, I think Cyborg would murder Rousey if she didn't get an IMMEDIATE takedown). Cyborg is also not a rudimentary striker like Rousey is, even if she isn't as technical as Holm (despite what a lot of so-called WMMA fans claimed leading up to the Holm fight regarding Rousey's boxing) and even Ronda landed a few shots; if Cyborg did so, and I'd wager she would more than likely to be able to, Holly would be in trouble. In terms of grappling, I would even put Cyborg at least on par with the grappling physicality of Tate, if not ahead, due to her overwhelming size and strength advantage over her. Look at their respective fights against Marloes. Cyborg rag-dolled her and punished her with a pretty conservative, grappling-centric GnP assault where as Tate pulled off one of her patented, underdog victories and never seemed her physical superior. I think Cyborg could potentially do the same to Holm, only worse. On the feet, she has the power and size to really make Holm pay for any mistake and she if she got her down, it would be bad news (imagine if Miesha was much bigger, stronger and vicious in round 2 against Holm). Holm would need to fight a perfect fight in order to pull that one off but I think she could likely beat Tate if they fought again, even though I'm a big fan of Tate's and have been since she was in Strikeforce. Being a fan of both Miesha and Holm, I don't want to see either of them against Cyborg.

Now, you seem to be operating on the 140 catch weight which may shave a little off of Cyborg's physicality, but not as much as five lbs of lean muscle. I think Cyborg is just going to get leaner and cut more rather than losing much muscle mass. She'll still be bigger and stronger than any other 140 lb female fighter if she makes weight.

The thing is, I think Cyborg's power and finishing ability are on the overrated side. You're talking like if she hits an opponent it's over, but she took 3 and 4 rounds to finish Coenen and 3 to finish tiny Akano, the majority of her quick finishes are over, well, scared cans who barely qualify as professional fighters.

When Holm got knocked out by Mathis in boxing it took a lot of punishment from Mathis who is known as one of the hardest hitting female boxers to do it and Baars was able to take shots from Cyborg just fine, yet Cyborg will smash Holm (and every other woman) if her fist so much as brushes their chins? Why is Cyborg's power so mythologized? The way you and others describe her physicality makes her sound almost like a superhuman being, I can't think of any male fighter who is treated even close to that way aside from maybe Rumble, but even he isn't considered near unbeatable. Cyborg is the last 'invincible' fighter despite a paper thin resume compared to others who aren't considered as overwhelming.

I think Amanda Nunes hits just as hard as Cyborg looking at her starchings of Budd and McMann and all her 1st/2nd round T/KO finishes, but we don't talk with such awe and reverence about her because she's actually lost (well Cyborg has lost too but not recently) while fighting quality competition.

I really think Cyborg's reputation is undeservedly boosted a lot by beating cans, I've made a comparison to Brandon Thatch before too - Thatch looked like an unstoppable monster smashing low level competition, but proved to be far from that against real opponents. Granted Cyborg probably isn't as bad relative to the BW division as Thatch relative to the WW division, but should we really put so much stock in pummeling randoms?
 
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