International Hezbollah pager explosions kill dozens and injure thousands in Lebanon

[Rational Poster]

Right, it was in reference to the Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and not the Lebanese Hezbollah. When Israel was occupying Lebanon Hezbollah arguably had a legitimate grievance but that's well in the past and taking pot-shots at Israel with rockets right now is only giving Israel the pretense to escalate further.

No it wasn't you were talking about how the Lebanese felt about getting their dicks blown off recently as well, that's what I was referring to.

 

[Islam Imamate]

No it wasn't you were talking about how the Lebanese felt about getting their dicks blown off recently as well, that's what I was referring to.

I was talking about the Palestinian right to self defense initially. kflo responds by saying this.

And of course it’s not just about what’s justified it’s what’s the best course of action to change future behaviors.

Then I point to the Israeli attack against Hezbollah and asked him to apply that standard to it. Is this the best course of action to change future behaviors? Probably not but Israel feels its has a right to exercise self defense against a terror group operating on its northern border that antagonizes it and that's fair. But if so shouldn't it also be fair for Palestinians to retaliate against settler terrorism? Should the PA be allowed to set off bombs in illegal settler outposts housing violent settlers?

 

[Horiguchi'sEar]

We should just merge everything into Israel & "Friends" Super Thread

 

[Rygu]

Did they buy their pagers here?

 

[Halifax]

Israel just did bombing and artillery against Lebanon as well. They're escalating this conflict into a greater war.

I guarantee you as soon as Iran and or Lebanon retaliates for real the entire American media is going to be all like "Oh poor Israel just got attacked when they were just innocents!"

Lebanon signed a UN promise and delcared, with the help of UNIFIL, they would disarm Hezbollah in 2006, by force if necessary

The UN agreement was, Lebanon will forcefully disarm Hezbollah and scatter them into insignificance and replace them with Lebanese soldiers who will follow orders of the lebanese government and In return, Israel will withdraw from the 2006 conflict.

Israel complied and withdrew. Lebanon said "haha, I had my fingers crossed. We aren't disarming Hezbollah. And now we have fortified!"

This is why nobody listens to the UN anymore. Toothless bullshit with no power to enforce.


Israel can carpet bomb hezbollah for all I care. It's all on Lebanon and the UN for not forcefully removing them as promised. All innocents caught in the crossfire are on the heads of Hezbollah and those who didn't forcefully disarm Hezbollah as promised

 

[kflo]

I was talking about the Palestinian right to self defense initially. kflo responds by saying this.

Then I point to the Israeli attack against Hezbollah and asked him to apply that standard to it. Is this the best course of action to change future behaviors? Probably not but Israel feels its has a right to exercise self defense against a terror group operating on its northern border that antagonizes it and that's fair. But if so shouldn't it also be fair for Palestinians to retaliate against settler terrorism? Should the PA be allowed to set off bombs in illegal settler outposts housing violent settlers?

I don’t know. Maybe blowing some dicks off and killing leaders does change behavior. Remains to be seen. It’s a new one…..

There’s nuance and differences in everything. It’s ok to recognize that blanket statements aren’t always appropriate or that recognizing differences isn’t always wrong. I abhor settler violence against innocent Palestinians. There are evil Israeli’s out there doing horrible things. I don’t think they compare directly to a group like Hezbollah.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I don’t know. Maybe blowing some dicks off and killing leaders does change behavior. Remains to be seen. It’s a new one…..

Sure but by that logic Palestinians resisting the occupation can also change behavior no? If they were disciplined enough to only attack soldiers in the West Bank or settlers that attack them that might change Israeli behavior right? Would you support that?

There’s nuance and differences in everything. It’s ok to recognize that blanket statements aren’t always appropriate or that recognizing differences isn’t always wrong. I abhor settler violence against innocent Palestinians. There are evil Israeli’s out there doing horrible things. I don’t think they compare directly to a group like Hezbollah.

Its very telling that you can't bring yourself to grant that Palestinians have a right to self defense from settler terrorists.

 

[kflo]

Sure but by that logic Palestinians resisting the occupation can also change behavior no? If they were disciplined enough to only attack soldiers in the West Bank or settlers that attack them that might change Israeli behavior right? Would you support that?

Its very telling that you can't bring yourself to grant that Palestinians have a right to self defense from settler terrorists.

I have said innocent Palestinians have a right to self defense from settler and military violence against them.

 

[Halifax]

How is it not legit?
How about their use of white phosphorous?

Like the US when they invaded Iraq?

Shocking. Weapons of war used in war.

But cry about it when the soldiers hold up human shields to hide behind

 

[Halifax]

You don't need to build a hospital to do that, you could just build an apartment complex.

Hezbollah is bad but they do also legitimately invest into the social services they provide to their constituents. That's partly how they've entrenched themselves into Lebanese society.

Ireland doesn't look too fondly on it now and Muslims comprise less than 2% of their population.

Lebanon and UNIFIL pledged they would disarm and depower Hezbollah in 2006 if Israel withdrew from Lebanon and then police them to assure they never armed up and coukd be a threat again.

israel and Lebanon both signed on to this UN resolution. Israel kept up their end of the bargain and withdrew. What happened to the other half of the promise since 2005?

In fact, Lebanon and UNIFIL pledged to use force to disarm Hezbollah if necessary. If hezbollah refused to disarm, they were supposed to annihilate them.

By sacred pledge, the government of Lebanon should declare war on Hezbollah and seek to destroy them to protect Israel. They did promise to do so in a signed guarantee to the UN after all.

The fact that the UN reneged on this is partially why they are a sideshow freak nobody pays attention to

 

[Islam Imamate]

Lebanon and UNIFIL pledged they would disarm and depower Hezbollah in 2006 if Israel withdrew from Lebanon and then police them to assure they never armed up and coukd be a threat again.

israel and Lebanon both signed on to this UN resolution. Israel kept up their end of the bargain and withdrew. What happened to the other half of the promise since 2005?

In fact, Lebanon and UNIFIL pledged to use force to disarm Hezbollah if necessary. If hezbollah refused to disarm, they were supposed to annihilate them.

By sacred pledge, the government of Lebanon should declare war on Hezbollah and seek to destroy them to protect Israel. They did promise to do so in a signed guarantee to the UN after all.

The fact that the UN reneged on this is partially why they are a sideshow freak nobody pays attention to

Even the Israelis struggled against Hezbollah on their home turf and the Lebanese government is not exactly a military power. A failed state trying to dislodge arguably the most powerful non-state actor in the world is a recipe for a disastrous civil war which Lebanon already has in its history. Israel's not wrong to be bothered by it but I don't think anyone believes the Lebanese army nor the UN force has the capability to come close to dislodging Hezbollah.

 

[Halifax]

Even the Israelis struggled against Hezbollah on their home turf and the Lebanese government is not exactly a military power. A failed state trying to dislodge arguably the most powerful non-state actor in the world is a recipe for a disastrous civil war which Lebanon already has in its history. Israel's not wrong to be bothered by it but I don't think anyone believes the Lebanese army nor the UN force has the capability to come close to dislodging Hezbollah.

The United nations pledged a multinational force to oust Hezbollah bro. If every country in the UN can't put together a team to dislodge hezbollah or even prevent them from getting tons of arms, then Israel has my blessing to go "bombs away" and blow the south Lebanon to bits.

The rest of Lebanon will thank them for it from what I can tell.

Until the UN does that, nothing they say counts or matters on a global scale

 

[The Diplomat]

Iran never invaded Israel ever.

The Persians were, and are running the show when it comes to the end of Israel.

 

[The Diplomat]

You can always turn the clock back and argue so and so started it. Suffice to say the conflict goes back before 1947 and there's bloody hands on "both sides" as much as I hate to say that kind of thing.

Pretty much all the Arab monarchies are pro-western and they actually help us out more when we fight in the region. Israel is legitimized because they're supposedly our great ally in the region but they can't actually fight along side us or the other Arab countries won't. So more often than not they don't directly help us. Ukraine in fact was part of the coalition of the willing into Iraq but not Israel.

Of course between Israel and Iran I will choose Israel but that's a silly question. As far as the US ally tier list goes I'm ranking Canada, the UK, and even Japan higher than Israel by two tiers. That's why it kills me that Biden will block the acquisition of US Steel by Nippon Steel but he'll hand over F-35s to Israel so they can bomb tunnels. We'll subsidize an illegal occupation but we can't let a close ally acquire one of our companies? What kind of priorities are these?

Hey man, I'll be the first to admit that Eisenhower and our CIA meddling in Iranian coups during the 50s probably set off the majority of the middle east's problems today.

But the Jews and Arabs have been fighting in that specific land for eons. After the Holocaust, for better or worse, the UN decided to give the Jews their own tiny piece of land to call home. Coulda gone better? Yeeeah. But everytime the Arabs fought the Jews, the Jews kicked their asses, ontop of being premiere Nazi Hunters and giving back through Intel.

I'm just saying. Regardless of Israel's fuck ups, at the end of the day, one tries to help the US while the other actively hates us. And while having the privilege of differentiating the two, and preferring a peaceful utopia is nice....in practical, pragmatic terms, I side with Israel.

1. Israeli views of the U.S.

On the whole, Israelis voice more favorable than unfavorable views toward the U.S., despite significant political shifts in both countries since this

www.pewresearch.org