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Herb made a bad call in Michal/Holland

Remember a few months back when Herb was fucking up every other event. I don’t know how the guy still refs… at least they stopped calling him the best in the business on broadcasts
 
scytheavatar said:
The injury is probably already career-ending, torn ligaments are harder to recover from than broken bones.

Oleksiejczuk is fucked and that's a good thing, people like him who are too stupid to tap have no business learning MMA.
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Looks like it was saved actually. You can see Kevin was talking to Herb while he was bending his arm. He knows if he bends it a little more, it might already pop.

Not sure about that torn ligaments but it can heal in weeks to months with proper treatments.
 
djason1988 said:
While Michal probably should have tapped, he didn't, and Herb prematurely stopped the fight because he thought Michal was reaching to tap. The arm had already "popped" well before he actually stopped it, but herb let it continue, and then they claimed it he stopped it because of the armbar. "Technical submission". He just misread it, and he's gotten a pass for it.



At this level, the ref doesn't get to stop the fight because he thinks you might be hurt. Look at literally any of Rouseys armbars, or the jones/vitor one, or several other subs. If they don't tap, and are still concious, the fight goes on. We've seen multiple fighters continue with severe joint/limb damage, even aside from subs. Fighters getting their foot or hand broke, blowing their knee out, etc. Stopping a fight due to injury is a doctor's call.



Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying Michal would have won, or that not tapping was the right thing to do, but rather just pointing out that it's kind of crazy that Herb blatantly made a bad call and nobody is saying anything about it.
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I've never seen a fighter with a dislocated arm or leg win a fight so I'm ok with Herb stopping that fight.

Do you really think Michal had any chance of winning after sustaining the injury? If not, then Herb did the right thing by protecting him from a career ending injury
 
If Michal was in a bad position and getting punched in the face the stoppage would have been fine though, correct?

Michal was no longer able to defend himself and it was the refs job to jump in and save him…

Referees have stopped fights with a competitor still standing and trying to cover up. They don’t need to wait until a fighter is unconscious or has a ruined limb for a fight to be stopped.

Ultimately, their job is to protect the fighters from themselves…
 
djason1988 said:
While Michal probably should have tapped, he didn't, and Herb prematurely stopped the fight because he thought Michal was reaching to tap. The arm had already "popped" well before he actually stopped it, but herb let it continue, and then they claimed it he stopped it because of the armbar. "Technical submission". He just misread it, and he's gotten a pass for it.



At this level, the ref doesn't get to stop the fight because he thinks you might be hurt. Look at literally any of Rouseys armbars, or the jones/vitor one, or several other subs. If they don't tap, and are still concious, the fight goes on. We've seen multiple fighters continue with severe joint/limb damage, even aside from subs. Fighters getting their foot or hand broke, blowing their knee out, etc. Stopping a fight due to injury is a doctor's call.



Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying Michal would have won, or that not tapping was the right thing to do, but rather just pointing out that it's kind of crazy that Herb blatantly made a bad call and nobody is saying anything about it.
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It's like you don't understand what "defend yourself intelligently at all times" means.

I'll give you a hint: it involves not letting a guy snap your arm while you're doing literally nothing, and then proceed to hyperextend your arm further and further while. . . you're still doing nothing except laying there. Really, really simple concept that so, so many sherbros either don't get or pretend that they don't get so that they can blog and vent online.
 
Banana Tree's Nemesis said:
I hope my version is still up to date, but the literal phrasing of the rules is "Technical Submission: When a legal submission act results in unconsciousness or broken/dislocated bone(s)/joint(s)."
A dislocated elbow warrants a stoppage. I would guess that's what happened here. He was visibly not able to use his arm properly when the fight was stopped.
I thought it was a rather good stoppage.
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Also important, it's not like he was almost getting out. Holland had him hook, line, and sinker in that armbar and Hussar wasn't going anywhere. . . except to the hospital afterwards. Holland could have and would have just over-extended and then twisted his arm off eventually, and Herb spared him that.
 
humperdoo said:
Looks like it was saved actually. You can see Kevin was talking to Herb while he was bending his arm. He knows if he bends it a little more, it might already pop.

Not sure about that torn ligaments but it can heal in weeks to months with proper treatments.
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Agree, both Holland and Herb did the right thing here. Holland is being a nice guy and not finalizing the submission and Herb steps in before he gets a career ending victory. They completely saved the guy from seriously hurting himself because he was an idiot.
 
kingghidrah said:
The guy's arm had snapped, and he pathetically reached over to touch his own hand, in a motion that looked like a tap, he was done and it was time to stop it.

Other fights have been stopped because fighters touch their own injured face pathetically, it's a sign that you can't and shouldn't continue when you're trying to tend to your own injuries.

By your logic Silva vs. Weidman 2 shouldn't have been stopped since Silva didn't tap
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Silva Vs Weidman 2 shouldn't have stopped though
 
Qays Stetkevich said:
Also important, it's not like he was almost getting out. Holland had him hook, line, and sinker in that armbar and Hussar wasn't going anywhere. . . except to the hospital afterwards. Holland could have and would have just over-extended and then twisted his arm off eventually, and Herb spared him that.
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Exactly. It's not like he got his arm hyperextended and then slipped out the submission before the fight was stopped.

He was unable to get out of the submission while taking visible damage to his arm. If someone thinks that isn't "real" enough, then simply pretend there is no bell to save him, he would never get out, not without his arm attached at least.

It's not any different than someone who is pinned down in a crucifix position and the ref stopping it, even if the blows arent the hardest, they demonstrated they are incapable of getting out (the bell ringing isn't a valid method of defense).
 
It’s literally in the rules under technical submission that a visible dislocation due to a submission warrants a stoppage. I swear some of you look to fabricate excuses to pile on the narrative that herb is bad at his job. He has his fuck ups 100%, we’ve all seen them. But stop with this horse shit when he absolutely did his job right. Michal’s comments that he didn’t submit are 100% irrelevant
 
djason1988 said:
That's retarded, Silva literally couldn't stand. Thiago Santos fought jones 5 rounds with a blown out knee. Should that have been stopped? Brown broke his foot in like, the first kick he threw the other night. Should that have been stopped? How many fighters have broken their hands punching? Should all those have been stopped? Michal was moving his arm fine after the fight, and has already stated that it wasn't broken. He had some joint damage for sure, but many fighters have been allowed to fight through that.
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fair points indeed but if he escaped that arm bar and somehow stood up I'm quite sure his arm would be dangling like a wet noodle and the fight would be stopped then. I think it comes down to basics like having a functioning limb where the alternative is there's no way you can tough it out and "fight through it" if it is indeed incapacitated. you could see that he didn't even want Herb touching his right arm during Bruce's concluding announcement, and of course he was clutching it as if it was a dead limb right after the stoppage.
 
kingghidrah said:
The guy's arm had snapped, and he pathetically reached over to touch his own hand, in a motion that looked like a tap, he was done and it was time to stop it.

Other fights have been stopped because fighters touch their own injured face pathetically, it's a sign that you can't and shouldn't continue when you're trying to tend to your own injuries.

By your logic Silva vs. Weidman 2 shouldn't have been stopped since Silva didn't tap
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Then why didn't they stop Tony vs Charles?... I'll wait.
 
sonhow said:
If the arm snaps the fight is done. At that point it has nothing to do with his desire to continue. He shouls have tapped before it snapped anyway.
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It wasn't snapped sir.

Then they should've stopped Tony vs Charles, they should stopped JDM vs Burns, etc etc etc.
 
Qays Stetkevich said:
It's like you don't understand what "defend yourself intelligently at all times" means.

I'll give you a hint: it involves not letting a guy snap your arm while you're doing literally nothing, and then proceed to hyperextend your arm further and further while. . . you're still doing nothing except laying there. Really, really simple concept that so, so many sherbros either don't get or pretend that they don't get so that they can blog and vent online.
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Great point! He showed no intelligent defense when he wouldn't tap out.
 
jeff7b9 said:
Because if a fighter is known as "tough" or resilient or a comeback guy, and very popular, they get special treatment.

See also: Big Nog
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Michel is not known as tough?
If he's not tough, then nobody is tbf sir.
 
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