Help: Stalling Out/Not Progressing Quickly Enough

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Neuro, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

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    Hey guys,

    Been running 5/3/1 for about 6 months or so now, fairly consistently. I read T-Nation a lot, and I just read a Rip article where he states the following:

    "For a 200-pound male of average height, a 1.75x bodyweight squat, a 2x bodyweight deadlift, and a .75x bodyweight press constitute a well-developed strength base.
    Although this isn't considered "strong" by competitive lifters, it represents a level of strength that's attainable by 95% of male trainees in a few short months of reasonably efficient training on the lifts."

    All of that sounded about right, until he said it's attainable "in a few short months?" My current numbers as stands are:

    DL = 1 x 370
    OHP = 1 x 140
    SQ = 3 x 240
    BP = 5 x 205

    And I usually walk around at 170, but I've bulked up to 190 since starting 5/3/1. According to Rip's calculations, my squat should be at around 330, my deadlift at 380, and 142. After 6 months or so, am I doing something wrong and should my numbers be higher? Can/should I still be making Noob gainzzz?

    I apologize for the length of this, and appreciate any feedback. Thanks guys
     
  2. TheeFaulted

    TheeFaulted Inzer Belt

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    If you're not running Rippetoe's program, then why would you expect the results that Rippetoe suggests?
     
  3. Twisted Elbow**

    Twisted Elbow** Blue Belt

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    As long as your progressing you shouldn't worry about gains fast. And 5/3/1 is more for intermediate lifters cause the progression is slower, unless you speed up the progression(adding weight each session or weekly as opposed to monthly)

    If your still making gains keep with it. If your not making gains there could be multiple problems(form check, weakness in certain muscles, etc)

    Hope that clears things up. Surely their is more knowledgable people to chime in.

    Also what the guy above me said. Your running wendlers program and not rips program. So expecting rips results would be futile. Beginners would be best to start with starting strength or strong lifts.
     
  4. TheeFaulted

    TheeFaulted Inzer Belt

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    Looks like you have roughly a
    1.4 BW Squat
    1.95 BW Deadlift
    .74 OHP

    So the answer is you have a lagging squat, likely because you're only squatting once a week on 5/3/1 instead of 3x week on SS.
     
  5. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

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    Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. In the article, here : http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/conditioning_is_a_sham, he says those stats should be attainable by all athletes on any program, not just Starting Strength, I believe.

    Yeah, I've thought about adding weight each session, or something along those lines, but I felt I didn't know enough yet to start messing with the program. I have, however, been running 5/3/1 faster than the original program. I do 2 lifts each day, and add a third day each week, so I finish the program in 3 weeks, rather than 4. Any more than that and I felt I didn't have the expertise to do my own programming variations.
     
  6. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

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    makes sense, thanks man
     
  7. iama

    iama Orange Belt

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    squatting 3 times a week? daymmmm son! I front squat once a week, I make steady gains, probably could improve faster but its really just s+c for judo.
     
  8. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Who thinks Rip actually did a statistical analysis when he came up with those numbers, and who thinks he just gave numbers he liked the sound of?
     
  9. Twisted Elbow**

    Twisted Elbow** Blue Belt

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    I run 5/3/1 but at a faster pace when I started. Like you I was doing two lifts a day with a third day in the week. What I did to make mine faster was, ex: training max set at 90%. Instead of adding 5-10lb after a cycle is complete. I adjust my training max off my estimated max after doing the amrap sets. Will have to put your amrap set in a 1rm calculator to figure this out then 90% for your new trainin max. Hope I didn't confuse you.
     
  10. Twisted Elbow**

    Twisted Elbow** Blue Belt

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    I'm gonna have to vote on the second question.
     
  11. CRZA

    CRZA Purple Belt

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    I wouldnt care about rips statistics. He seems to love saying "anyone can get to X within X" if you follow my tips.

    We're all different and some may get there faster than others. If you're progressing and enjoying training, keep at it. If you feel your progress isnt fast enough, switch to a program where you add weight in a more aggressive matter (madcow example)
     
  12. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    I think patience is pretty important in strength training. Absolutely, you want to train hard, and smart, and try to figure out how to make the best progress possible. But over the long term, it might not be that much per month, especially for some of us. Like the oft repeated saying goes, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

    I find it helps to do the math - less say you add 5kg to your squat in a month. It might not seem like a lot, but that's 60kg in a year. And consider that it usually takes over ten years for a lifter to reach his peak. So it should become apparent that 5kg in a month is actually good progress if it's maintained for any length of time. It also helps me to remember the times I've been impatient, and pushed to hard, and made less progress because of it.

    You're not going to get strong by a week next Thursday.
     
  13. Twisted Elbow**

    Twisted Elbow** Blue Belt

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    Good to know I have a lot of learning and training ahead of me.
     
  14. Big Jack

    Big Jack Green Belt

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    Rip is rip - he will advise what he wants and bat down anything he doesn't like the sound of. That doesn't mean he is stupid, as he is far from that. It was SS that got me into strength training in the first place and I went from an 85kg x 5 squat to a 140kg x 5 squat in about 4 and a half months. SS is a fantastic program for beginners.

    I stalled a lot and realized I could no longer milk noob gains - I was not recovering from heavy squatting 3x a week and so I looked to 5/3/1.

    5/3/1 is also a fantastic program but Wendler specifically says to not expect quick gains - it is a slow progressive program that is aimed towards intermediate lifters. You won't add 50kg to your squat in 3 months, but you will add 50kg to your squat over the course of the year. Whilst it might not sound like much, on the face of things it is. It's progression - that means your getting stronger.

    Anyway the bottom line is, like mentioned earlier, don't expect your numbers to rapidly shoot up over the course of a few months on 5/3/1. If your not running SS then why listen to advice from rip? Just carry on what your doing and make sure you smash right through those + sets at the end of every lifting day and you will begin to notice a difference.
     
  15. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    Lulz!
     
  16. Big Jack

    Big Jack Green Belt

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    Had the right to call me up on that. I meant, in relation to 50kg in 6 months noob gains etc.

    Just trying to point out that on a program like 5/3/1 patience and consistency are important. I'm settling down on the program now and I love it.
     
  17. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    ^ Yeah man, no worries.

    It's just funny to me how anybody could think 50 kg in a year "might not sound like much".
     
  18. PUO3

    PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    i think rip bullshits a little bit on time frames to better "sell" his program.

    given, it is an amazing program, but i do find the gain expectations a bit far fetched for most people.
     
  19. KnightTemplar

    KnightTemplar Halloween Belt Platinum Member

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    I've got a lot of respect for Rip, but I wouldn't take anything he writes/says as Gospel.
     
  20. ssdd

    ssdd Purple Belt

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    I think those gains are what he expects from the teenagers who are training under his supervision. I'd bet most of the guys he trains are probably 6ft+ football players who are weighing over 200lbs with their weight gain. Someone who is smaller, older, or just naturally less inclined to be interested in strength training probably shouldnt expect gains like that in that timeframe. I know the whole hardgainer and bodytype bro science is frowned upon here, but some people definitely will have to put in more work and food than others to make that progress.
     

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