Help me with my 12 week coworker fitness challenge

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by mrsneakyz28, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. mrsneakyz28

    mrsneakyz28 Green Belt

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    So I have started a challenge with two other guys at work, with entirely different body types, diets, and workout routines, in an effort to motivate the 3 of us to stay on track with our workouts, and also get an idea of who's philosophies on nutrition and exercise prove to be the most effective. It has now turned into a monetary bet, and alot of smack talk. Also I know it says fitness challenge but it was tough getting all of the guys to agree on all of the categories, so unfortunately there is no endurance/cardio based challenge.

    The challenge is broken down into two parts Strength and Physique. For Physique we took before pictures and most of the scoring will be based on overall personal improvement at the end of 12 weeks. But some points will be awarded in head to head physique comparisons as well.

    Strength will be scored on our big 3 totals (2 rep max out), but some points will be awarded for the highest single lifts as well. Originally we were going to do weight calasses and go by a wilks score but they were being whiny about other parts of the contenst so I suggested we just do straight up strength, even though they both have alot of weight on me. I am small and very lean 6' 145 lbs currently, but I am confident in my work ethic and strength gains.

    So...my two questions I guess are, how much weight reasonably do you think I can gain in 12 weeks. I was originally thinking 10-12 solid pounds, but if there's a possibility of 2 lbs/week I would like to be my goal. I have been 155 lbs before and I was strong at that weight, but I feel like I need to be over 160 to put up the strength numbers that I want to acheive in just 12 weeks.

    I'm looking for my DL to be between 300-400 lbs, a 250 lb squat, and 200lb bench. Are these realistic goals? I'm continuing starting strength with some of my own adjustments, and I do a bit of grappling/MT/Swimming on my off days. Im trying to eat 3500 calories a day with 200 grams protein and 300-400 carbs. Right now I'm hitting that number on carbs but only about 150-160 protein and 2700 calories. Help is appreciated guys. Thanks!
     
  2. Mayoman

    Mayoman White Belt

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    to be honest man, 2700 or even 3500 calories a day is not near enough. You should be eating everything in sight. Just make sure you get very caloric dense and macronutrient dense calories. Example ( a 500 calorie cheeseburger is very caloric dense and a 500 calorie pastry is not).

    Lift to failure on every body set. I hope you know what failure sets are because im not going that far to explain them. If you dont, google that shit and it will explain. (short story. lift to fail between 4-6 reps and do 6 sets).

    never lift on the same body part more than once a week (besides ab"s and glut's)

    quit the cardio. Unless it serves some purpose if the final test. it only burns excessive calories with no benfit to retaining weight or muscle.

    And just bust your ass man. The hard work will pay off. I have been lifting for about 6 years solid. And dont regret one day of it.

    I live by one motto when it comes to lifting
    "if you wanna get big man, you gotta eat big"

    Hope this helps.

    P.s. Be safe in the gym. Dont push weight your not comfortable with. Form means 99% more to gaining than that weight does.
     
  3. Mayoman

    Mayoman White Belt

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    Sorry, in my stupid ass ranting, I didnt even anwer your two questions.

    Depending on your age and god given metobolic system. Putting on 10-12lbs of MUSCLE in 12 weeks is a little far fetched. But NOTHING is impossible. Some people train solid for a year to gain 10lbs of solid muscle.

    And as far as the protein and calorie issues. I already covered that. You are in a fine range for your protein consumption. if you weight 145 thats plenty of protein. Just stick to the formula of 2 grams of protein for every Kilogram of bodyweight (for you info, there is 2.2lbs in a kilogram so -- 145/2.2=66 kg's x 2= 132 grams of daily protein. Any more and your simple just wasting calories. Your body simply just wont absorb it. Plus its tough on your renal system (kidneys) to eliminate that excess protein. And it will give you unwanted Diarrhea at the same time.

    Those weight numbers are certainly within you achievable goal range. Unless im talking to a 14-15 year old. LOL. But doesnt sound that way.

    Anyway good luck Bro.

    Nothing comes easy, put in the hours and you will reap the benefits.
     
  4. pliftkl

    pliftkl Green Belt

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    You could easily add 25 pounds in 12 weeks with GOMAD and Starting Strength.
     
  5. pliftkl

    pliftkl Green Belt

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    He's 140 pounds at six feet tall. He absolutely can put on much more than 10-12 pounds of muscle in 12 weeks. If he's squatting 3 times a week and adding weight to the bar and taking in an extra 2300 calories and 130 g of protein a day from milk, he's gonna grow.

    Most people don't know how to eat or train.
     
  6. deckingdutchman

    deckingdutchman Orange Belt

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    Do Starting Strength with GOMAD. You'll make tons of progress.

    Eat everything you can see.

    Read the Strength & Power FAQ.
     
  7. mrsneakyz28

    mrsneakyz28 Green Belt

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    This was my thought. I've been over 155 before, and I gained it fairly quickly and that was even while I was training MT/BJJ/Crossfit as well 6x a week.

    I've done starting strength in the past as well as the bill starr 5x5. I stopped working out for almost 2 years and started again earlier this year, but was letting alot of life's bullshit interfere with my workouts. That's why I came up with this program to keep me on track, because I know I grow pretty nicely when I am consistant.

    I do squat 3x a week. I don't get any of my protein from milk though because I am allergic to dairy. I eat very clean and no dairy so it's pretty tough for me to get into those higher calorie ranges. Here is an ideal sample day for me when I'm off work and I have time to get all my meals in.

    Breakfast: 2 servings organic oats with 2 cups coconut milk, 4 large eggs, and a banana.

    Workout. Post workout shake with oats, banana, coconut milk, and peanut butter.

    Lunch: 2 Bison burgers on wheat buns with a whole avocado.

    Snack: Peanut butter chocolate chip clif bar, and nut mix (almonds, cranberries, dark chocolate almonds)

    Dinner: 10 oz grilled chicken, 2 servings broccoli, spinach or asparagus, 3 servings sweet potato fries.

    Snack: 2 PB+J sandwiches on wheat bread.

    That comes to around 4800 calories 500 grams carbs and 228 protein, so it might be a little overkill. But after writing that out I know it is attainable. It just sucks because I work at a nightclub and so I go to bed around 430am and wake up around noon and sometimes have to go into work at 3 (till 3 ugh) so I'm eating alot of my meals at the club which consists of just chicken breasts veggies and LOTS of sushi.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  8. pliftkl

    pliftkl Green Belt

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    Allergic or intolerant? If it's not an actual allergic reaction, and really just intestinal distress, then you have options:

    1. Take the bacteria that will let you digest milk, figure out the dose you need, and drink milk.
    2. Buy the more expensive milk designed for lactose intolerant people.
    3. Invest in baby wipes and suck it up for 12 weeks.
     
  9. mrsneakyz28

    mrsneakyz28 Green Belt

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    No I'm allergic to casein, and I don't trust whey either.
     
  10. Mayoman

    Mayoman White Belt

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    Your intestines have a problem with it for a fucking reason. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS ADVICE. Milk is a terrible source of protein that every human has problems digesting. Golden rule, Unless the milke came outta your mother's breast, stay away from it.

    There is a actually an ongoing coalition to fid the dairy institute of its bullshit ideas that drinking cows milk is good for you. "Harvard School of Public Health, on the Consumption of Dairy Products (2005)"

    Before you start giving out medical advice, get an education. Or at the very least, read a few studies. Your advice could potentially kill people Moron
     
  11. Mayoman

    Mayoman White Belt

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    I would love to have seen you go under the calipers or be put into a Hydrodensitometry Weighing tank to show you how much of your supposed 25lb muscle gain was bullshit.
     
  12. Indivdude

    Indivdude Blue Belt

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    For one, he said 25 lbs. He didn't say 25 lbs of muscle. Second, the TS sounds like a beginner. Its possible to add on 25 lbs or more in 12 weeks for a beginner that eats plenty of food and does GOMAD with SS. No it won't all be muscle but who cares?

    Also, wtf was this? Lift to failure on every set? Body split?

    TS, do not listen to this man. Go read Carnal's Treatise and the FAQ here and in D&S.
     
  13. BrassBalls

    BrassBalls Banned Banned

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    This might be good advice for a bodybuilder, but it is not good advice for strength gains. You should read the FAQ.

    edit: not good advice for a bber either. Not really sure what you are going for here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  14. Mayoman

    Mayoman White Belt

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    Please enlighten me with any shread of education, background or science you have into lifting, nutrition, or just being a plain fucking idiot.

    Because i would certainly love to see where your basis of information comes from. Actually i would be willing to throw my college education and hell, even my personal physique including BF %, dead lift, and bench against yours.

    And then we will talk about who knows shit from shambles.

    And to clarifiy, I have a dual bachelor's in exercise science/nutrition. I also have a Bachelor's degree in registered Nursing with my Trauma Nurse Specialist certificate and am currently working on my MD (thats med school just in case you cant comprehend)
     
  15. BrassBalls

    BrassBalls Banned Banned

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    As far as your argument against milk, you could use that same argument against many foods and alcohol. Just because some people can't eat fava beans due to a G6PD deficiency, doesn't mean that everyone should stop eating fava beans. For most people, continuing to drink milk will have no ill effects. Whether or not you become lactose intolerant can depend on a persons race and if a person continued to drink milk through their childhood. Milk protein allergies can also be avoided by early exposure to cow's milk/products. If you think milk, ice cream, butter, and cheese are going anywhere, you are delusional.


    As far as your training advice, it sounds like you are useing a bodybuilding split ("never train more than one part per week..always go to failure") with more of a strength rep scheme. I am really not sure what you are going for there.

    edit: About the protein and kidney thing:High-protein diets are not hazardous for the healthy kidneys -- Manninen 20 (3): 657 -- Nephrology Dialysis Transplantation


     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  16. pliftkl

    pliftkl Green Belt

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    Nonsense. At some point in our evolutionary history it was advantageous for humans to stop producing the lactase that allows us to digest lactose and convert it to glucose. That makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. When you have a mother who is nursing, she's got a limited capacity to produce milk, and she needs to be able to prioritize milk towards her youngest, since that's the only food they can eat. The biological adaptation to stop producing lactase is not a reaction to milk being unhealthy, but rather to the fact that you have a greater chance of spreading your genes on if your younger children aren't starving because your older ones are drinking all the milk.

    Now fast forward to the domestication of cattle and the introduction of milk into the European diet. At some point, perhaps 6000 years ago, there was a mutation that began to spread that allowed adult humans to consume milk. A similar mutation spread in Africa in the same time period. Both spread rapidly within their respective populations. Why did that happen? Because mother's milk was no longer the only milk available, and the people who drank the milk from cows had a competitive reproductive advantage over people who didn't drink milk. If that hadn't been the case, the mutation would have simply died out. Why would something that "is a terrible source of protein that every human has problems digesting" confer such a biological advantage?

    I'll leave you with a quote from Mark Rippetoe, whom I'm sure was never covered in any of your college courses. His quote is partially replicated in the signature of one of the poster's here, but here it is in it's entirety. I'm sure you can guess the question that he's responding to:

     
  17. rckvl

    rckvl Blue Belt

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    Actually the protein in milk is of very high quality. It is lactose that is usually the cause of stomach problems in people who drink milk. Lactose is a carbohydrate, it does not have anything to do with protein. I don't know what they are teaching you at the "college" you went to.

    And what is this? Lift to failure on every set and do 6 sets of 4-6 reps? Who taught you this crap? Lifting to failure is rarely a good idea, especially for a beginner. Never lift the same "body part" more than once a week? So I suppose all the beginner squatting three times a week and making impressive gains are doing it wrong? Form is 99% of what matters in gaining? So I can do body weight squats with perfect form and expect to make great gains? I must be able to, if form accounts for 99% of the gains. Adding weight would be pretty much insignificant to making progress.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  18. mrsneakyz28

    mrsneakyz28 Green Belt

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    Guys thanks for all the concern and replies. For the record I have strength trained with success at other times in my life, when I was a teenager, and a couple years ago when I was training mma. Since I stopped for 2 years, I always acknowledge that I am a beginner again. I've read the faq many times and I preach this shit to other people. I've got the diet/nutrition thing down to a science more than most people. I used to be a fucking freak with that shit. I have gotten by without dairy for much of my life and I will not be ingesting any in the near future so this is a moot conversation lol. I posted this to get some additional insight from the knowledgeable guys I know are here.

    Here is a breakdown of what the other guys are doing.

    Guy 1: 40 years old 6'1 200lbs, does some strength training but with a body building mentality. Uses smith machine for squats and bench :icon_neut and does 6 pyramid sets on every lift. Does 3 days on 1 day off, different body parts each day. Eats very little calories because he's trying to lose his gut. Told me he was deadlifting 235. I think I will destroy him in the strength department by the end of this because of his approach.

    Guy 2: 38 years old 5'10 175lbs, does 300 workout and supplements with some strength training. Less methodical with his approach and I think he is going to be the least disciplined of the 3. Says he benches 245 he's not big on deadlifts.

    Then there's Me: 25 years old 6'0 145 lbs. I am doing starting strength, and I do grip training and some extra workouts at home on my off days (pull-ups, plyometrics, grappling, hit my bag). My squat is a measly 145 but that number will fly once things get going, I was doing over 200 in 08 when I was 155 lbs. Bench is 145, I've always had the hardest time with this and I know I just need to put on some more size for this to increase. When I was 16 I could bench around 170, I was bigger then but not as lean or strong all around as I am now. I deadlift 215 for my 3x5 and this will increase the most for me.

    Thoughts?
     
  19. Indivdude

    Indivdude Blue Belt

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    First calm down. You seem to have taken this personally. You did fine on offering him what he should be doing for calories so I shouldn't have taken a broad stroke on everything you said.

    Besides this is the internet. I'm freaking posting from the space station right now man with double the bachelor's you have. Basically there's no way to tell whether you really have what you have. So saying that doesn't give you any expertise in the area, its what you offer in terms of information.

    This was good so I should have said this was fine. He does need to eat more anyway at 140 lbs and 6 feet tall.

    This was not especially since it didn't give what the TS asked for which was..

    He basically just wanted to know if what he was doing would work for gaining more strength and weight. Lifting to failure with a body split is not the way to go. Unless he's taking steriods, that will overtrain him or otherwise make him stall very quickly. He will probably even regress.

    If he was asking about a bodybuilding routine, I wouldn't have said anything about your lifting to failure advice. However, he asked for strength and lifting to failure on a body split is not going to help him very much or at all in putting weight on the bar for the big 3.
     
  20. Indivdude

    Indivdude Blue Belt

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    Two things come to mind. Either they're lying about what they can do or you're going to demolish them. Also your deadlift is probably the highest of all 3 if everything is true. 215 for 5 will give you maybe 250 or more. Keep at it. Maybe you can break 275 or 300. Worth a shot.
     

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