Help me convince a friend of the power of the overhand right

People are enamored with the overhand right from watching MMA fights. Among pro boxers, this is a dangerous punch to throw because you have to overcommit yourself by leaning in to your opponent and your unprotected chin is vulnerable to jabs and lead hooks. It is an undisciplined, aesthetically ugly punch and it works against MMA fighters because their boxing skills are generally sub-par. They don't know how to defend or counter against it. Pro boxers seldom use this punch unless they're fighting tall opponents. It's not a necessary component of the stand-up arsenal but it's nice to know.
 
overhand right in mma is easier to throw:

It's hard to see coming, and can be used to transition into a shot.
(except for a knee or uppercut), it's hard for a sub-par striker to counter
It' lets you bring your power down

It is less accurate, but tends to land easier in mma due to glove size.

A good boxer would rip you appart for dropping your head in, but unless the fighter on the street knows how to throw a nice counter uppercut, it's good to go.

The only problem is where it might land...it's a harder punch to control.
 
I hate questions like whats more powerful the overhand right or the straight right? It all depends on:

- Who is throwing it
- How it is thrown
- Where it lands
- Who is being hit
- Timing
- Distance
- Speed, Strength, Power, Reaction Time
- How it is set up
- How it is defended against

I'm sure others can elaborate more - No single punch is better than the other.
 
A lot of people overuse the overhead punch. The beginners tend to use overhead at the wrong time. I see them throw it way before they start drawing the big punch. The most effective way to defending against the punch is to move to the right or close in. Lately if I know the guy is going to throw it I like to use the karate upper block. If the block is used in good form you can catch the punchers wrist which fucking hurts like a bitch.
 
My personal disdain for the OH right aside (brawlers special) I think it's more likely to put the lights out. The reason isn't because its more powerful but because its more likely to cause head rotation and hence increased chance of KO. As simple as it seems most people can't throw a good straight. The key is the step. Without the step the straight loses its power. It has to be linked together in sequence for optimal power. If you were as good at throwing both, the OH right would still have the edge in terms of power. But for a lot of people the OH is much more powerful but more because of poor technique with the straight.

Overall the straight is faster, less powerful (but still adequately powerful) with superior range. The OH right is more powerful, more likely to KO, takes less skill but slower and shorter ranged. And then you just choose which can get around or through your targets defenses better.

Also the OH right biggest drawback besides leaving you open defensively is that you can't easily throw combos off it. So in conclusion I think the OH right is rubbish compared to the straight right.
 
i was hanging out at a bar tonight, and at some point the discussion of proper punching form arose. While i concede that a straight right hand is proper form, it is undeniable that a windmill (chuck lidell style) overhand is the more powerful punch. The windmill is more powerful because it involves the entire body (shoulders, hips, arms...) and increases the radius of the punch, therefore increasing the angular velocity e.g. momentum. My friend maintains that the straight right hand is more powerful because of its ability to distribute force upon impact. I'm sure everyone on this forum has witnessed the superiority of the overhand right, please respond to this thread with your support so i can forward this to my friend and prove him wrong.

Yeah I was going to state that straight right has all the body in it too......fan talk...
 
Ok, Basically what I'm getting at is the structure of a striking object to yield it's energy to a target.

Then the overhand right is thrown, at the point of impact, the structure that you have created cannot yield more foot pounds of energy to a target than the structure that you create with a straight right hand.

IF you were going to strike a flat wall at any angle you chose would you want to be in front of it with a straight right or would you arc your arm out and do a looping punch? When you push something like say...your car breaks down. Are you going to get behind it and push Straight or are you going to get to the side and push at an angle to get it to move? A push is not a punch I KNOW this...but the *principle* is the same as far as what yields the greater power.

The Cross is NOT a more structurally sound punch than a hook. You are "crossing" the strength of the frame...whereas a hook is slightly more powerful because of the kinetic energy yielded to the target due to the framework of the punch. The hook knocks more people out not necessarily because of the power but because of the angle you are striking the head (getting it to rotate, which causes the shock needed to KO).

One last thing and a fairly important note: when you throw a punch with an arc such as the Overhand Right ...upon impact due to the framing you have created with the punch...more energy is lost due to the inability of the structure of the punch (the shoulder, elbow etc..) to not "cushion" or absorb some of the power (i.e. your arm will bend slightly, your shoulder will give slightly ...now this is true with any punch but the greater the arc away from the body, the weaker the structure and less energy transference will occur. (i.e. hooks are tight punches held close to the body and not wide arcing punches....why? because there's no power in a long wide hook!!!!)

However, the Straight Right Punch yields more raw power to a target than the Overhand Right. This does not mean it will knock more people out or that it's a better punch in certain situations. It is however, a much stronger punch for the amount of power it yields.

I am a Sambo stylist that also practices Boxing and Thai-boxing. Overhand rights are OFTEN thrown in Sambo, lots of looping punches. They are good punches for the right situation and I disagree with the boxing poster that says it's a "sloppy" punch. It's not any more sloppy thank the hook punch and it does require skill to throw correctly.

I'm also a physical therapist so I know a little about what I'm speaking of when it comes to body structure

With that logic left or right hooks would be less powerful than a right cross.

If the rotation is the same then all objects connected to the body will rotate accordingly.
 
How to throw an Overhand Right, Iceman style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqf42bsTXnY

Notice how his form is like a pitcher throwing a baseball. Chuck is hitting with the top of his fist and aiming for the temple. This may be a Kenpo influenced technique. Boxers utilize a different overhand right that looks more like a straight right coming in at an arc, rather than a windmill. The are striking with the knuckles. The last De La Hoya/Mayweather fight had good examples of a boxer's overhand right. It's a much more controlled version of the MMA haymaker.
 
Ok, Basically what I'm getting at is the structure of a striking object to yield it's energy to a target.

Then the overhand right is thrown, at the point of impact, the structure that you have created cannot yield more foot pounds of energy to a target than the structure that you create with a straight right hand.

IF you were going to strike a flat wall at any angle you chose would you want to be in front of it with a straight right or would you arc your arm out and do a looping punch? When you push something like say...your car breaks down. Are you going to get behind it and push Straight or are you going to get to the side and push at an angle to get it to move? A push is not a punch I KNOW this...but the *principle* is the same as far as what yields the greater power.

Your arguments dont make sense. Striking a flat wall? A head is pretty much spherical. Pushing a car at an angle? If you did push it from the side, it wouldnt make your push any less powerful.

Its already been mentioned that force= mass x velocity. Both variables are of equal value. Get someone to drop a bowling ball onto your temple from one inch away. Great mass, low velocity. Then put your head next to a baseball pitching machine and crank it up full and fire one into your temple. Low mass high velocity. See what Im saying?

Yes, in a straight right you have more of your body "behind" the punch, but the arm isnt straight at point of impact, so the "cushion" effect you mentioned also applies to a straight.
 
Your arguments dont make sense. Striking a flat wall? A head is pretty much spherical. Pushing a car at an angle? If you did push it from the side, it wouldnt make your push any less powerful.

Its already been mentioned that force= mass x velocity. Both variables are of equal value. Get someone to drop a bowling ball onto your temple from one inch away. Great mass, low velocity. Then put your head next to a baseball pitching machine and crank it up full and fire one into your temple. Low mass high velocity. See what Im saying?

Yes, in a straight right you have more of your body "behind" the punch, but the arm isnt straight at point of impact, so the "cushion" effect you mentioned also applies to a straight.

I think you are incorrect on Every one of your assertions.

1) pushing a car using the technique of an overhand right verses a straight right DOES make your push less powerful because of the frame of the tool you are pushing with. You CANNOT put the same force into it. Example: BEND your arm, keep it bent and push something. Now make your arm straight and push something, which can you produce more force with without your arm giving? This stuff should be obvious. This is not really debate-able.

2) Your example of a baseball vs. a bowling ball doesn't change the fact that you cannot generate as much foot pounds of force with an overhand right vs. the straight right. A straight right is nowhere near the bowling ball example..with punching you will generally generate as much speed (if you know what you are doing) in the first 12 inches as you are going to get. If you hook it, it travels longer but not necessarily faster and when it impacts once again you are using an inferior tool (improper framing) to generate the most impact.

3) a straight right IS straight at the point of impact, an overhand right is not and the direction from which the force is generated is not.

I REALLY REALLY don't understand where you think my points don't make sense.

You just can't reach some people.

I use an analogy of the structure of a rooftop of a building. some are built stronger than others...architects design structures to improve strength..the "structure" of your body at the time of impact of an overhand right is NOT as strong and CANNOT yield as much power as a Straight right..period.
 
I think you are incorrect on Every one of your assertions.

1) pushing a car using the technique of an overhand right verses a straight right DOES make your push less powerful because of the frame of the tool you are pushing with. You CANNOT put the same force into it. Example: BEND your arm, keep it bent and push something. Now make your arm straight and push something, which can you produce more force with without your arm giving? This stuff should be obvious. This is not really debate-able.

2) Your example of a baseball vs. a bowling ball doesn't change the fact that you cannot generate as much foot pounds of force with an overhand right vs. the straight right. A straight right is nowhere near the bowling ball example..with punching you will generally generate as much speed (if you know what you are doing) in the first 12 inches as you are going to get. If you hook it, it travels longer but not necessarily faster and when it impacts once again you are using an inferior tool (improper framing) to generate the most impact.

3) a straight right IS straight at the point of impact, an overhand right is not and the direction from which the force is generated is not.

I REALLY REALLY don't understand where you think my points don't make sense.

You just can't reach some people.

I use an analogy of the structure of a rooftop of a building. some are built stronger than others...architects design structures to improve strength..the "structure" of your body at the time of impact of an overhand right is NOT as strong and CANNOT yield as much power as a Straight right..period.

1) I understand what you are try to say with this analogy now, but it still doesnt apply because it doesnt take into account the momentum/speed of a punch. Im not arguing that a straight punch doesnt have a better base. If i want to push something, I wont punch it thats for sure.:rolleyes:

2) My analogy was to show that speed is just as important as mass in the equation. Its like the old torque vs HP debate. And yes, it does travel faster, ie baseball pitch/cricket bowl (speed) vs shot put (power).

3) Are you going to tell me your right arm is completely locked out at the point of impact? Please post a vid, I would love to see it. You should be punching through objects for maximum power.

Rooftops? You know the strongest rooftop structure is dome. Last time I checked thats was curved.:icon_chee
 
overhand right in mma is easier to throw:

It's hard to see coming, and can be used to transition into a shot.
(except for a knee or uppercut), it's hard for a sub-par striker to counter
It' lets you bring your power down

It is less accurate, but tends to land easier in mma due to glove size.

A good boxer would rip you appart for dropping your head in, but unless the fighter on the street knows how to throw a nice counter uppercut, it's good to go.

The only problem is where it might land...it's a harder punch to control.

I don't mean to get into this thread, cause it's kinda silly, but I have to ask. Why do you say an overhand right is easier to land in mma due to glove size?
 
I don't mean to get into this thread, cause it's kinda silly, but I have to ask. Why do you say an overhand right is easier to land in mma due to glove size?

Because a 4 ounce glove has a better chance of slipping through the opponent's guard than an 18 ounce beach ball glove used in boxing (actually the pros fight with 10 ounces).
 
Overhand right is my main weapon against taller opponents.
 
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