Help me convince a friend of the power of the overhand right

[Noraa 666]

It's quite obvious which is the more powerful of the punches. The overhand right can be compared to whipping your fist like a mace on a chain. You take more room with the punch which gives you more time to generate enough power. Also more muscles are involved into guiding that punch.

 

[Drake Kurgan]

Obvious?
Your theory is SEVERELY flawed.

The power of the mace comes from the fact that the ball at the end of the chain produces momentum caused by the weight at the END of the chain. You are comparing two completely unrelated things (apples to cannonballs).

In a PUNCH, your (ANCHORING) power comes from the torso...NOT your fist. When you go outside of the framework of the body of the person and put an ARC or loop to anything you lose potential for power transferance.

This my last post on this subject since this is becoming fruitless arguing but if you bother to look at the physiology of both punches in relation to a HUMAN body (instead of a mace and chain)...you will see that certain things prevent the transfer of the same amount of actual force from an OR vs. the SR.

If both punches are done correctly...The straight right is more powerful than an overhand right. End of Story

It's quite obvious which is the more powerful of the punches. The overhand right can be compared to whipping your fist like a mace on a chain. You take more room with the punch which gives you more time to generate enough power. Also more muscles are involved into guiding that punch.

 

[BPA00]

First Post by me in over ...well a few years (different account name).

You are wrong sir. Velocity plus mass equals power. Don't forget the original question was asking which creates more power...not which will knock someone out easier or any other un-asked question.
One thing inexperienced people are forgetting is basic human anatomy and physiology.

You are using a theory that since the fist and arm have a longer arc that automatically means more power. It doesn't. Ordinarily if you were talking about a piece of lead shot, you would be right. However, since the arm is attached to the shoulder and any actual power (ft/lbs) comes from the ability of the body to "back up" what is thrown...no matter what the technique a straight right hand will ALWAYS have more POWER (ft/lbs) relayed to the target vs. the overhand right.

A simple way of looking at this is the straight right is supported directly by the body. The further your arm gets away from the body (arc) and the more outside the frame of the shoulder it gets, the less power it is able to transfer (without pulling the arm out of socket at the shoulder). Technique doesn't matter here even if you get perfect technique.

No doubt, overhand rights are effective, they are VERY hard to block but that has nothing to do with the original question. THE STRAIGHT RIGHT WILL ALWAYS (100% OF THE TIME) carry more/deliver more force (ft/lbs) to the target. There's no arguing this one way or the other. These are the facts.

Regards..

Drake

I agree with this for the most part... Although, wouldn't a looping punch such as the ones liddell throws have more velocity?? It seems like the whipping motion of his punches would definitely generate more speed than a straight punch. Not sure if that would make up for the less mass/body weight behind it...

 

[Godzilla3232]

You obviosly have never been rooked in the chin. I don't think the power of gravity ads so much more force to a overhand, I mean Crocops LHK comes from deep down so while he lifts his leg the force of gravity puls it back thowards the ground but still the kick is stronger then Chucks overhand.
You shouldn't try to explain everything scientific because the stuff you learned in school was about somthing else then punching. The circumstances of throwing punches are diferent then the "apple falls down the tree cause of the force of gravity"stuff you learned in school.

First of all, your legs are naturally a lot stronger then your arms so a kick will be stronger then a punch regardless of gravity. Crocops legs are freakishly strong.

Of course gravity doesn't have as great an impact on how hard a punch is as things like technique and where the punch lands; However an OHR is the more powerful punch. If some guy threw an OHR and a straight punch, both with perfect technique, the OHR will hit harder.

So it generates more velocity, but is slower??

By slower I didn't mean the punch is traveling slower. I just meant it takes longer to connect because it's traveling in a wide arc instead of a straight line. You probably already knew that though. :icon_twis

 

[Oliver]

Let's say bouth punches are powerfull and belong in a good arsenal.

END OF THE THREAD, if you wana talk more abou it then go to the stand-up section of the forum
Best poster in this thread: Drake Kurgan- thanks for the effort

 

[Drake Kurgan]

Possibly for him...but if both punches are side by side performed with equal skill...it's like the old .45 vs. 9mm

The 9mm travels MUCH faster than your standard .45 but the mass is not nearly as great. The 9mm still does not transfer as much ft/lbs of power. The OR will be a better punch on certain occasions and the SR will be in others but if we're talking pure theory based on the ability (i.e. physiology) of the human body...the SR will yield more ft/lbs. With any outside arc you take away kinetic energy from the body.

I agree with this for the most part... Although, wouldn't a looping punch such as the ones liddell throws have more velocity?? It seems like the whipping motion of his punches would definitely generate more speed than a straight punch. Not sure if that would make up for the less mass/body weight behind it...

 

[Oliver]

First of all, your legs are naturally a lot stronger then your arms so a kick will be stronger then a punch regardless of gravity. Crocops legs are freakishly strong.

Of course gravity doesn't have as great an impact on how hard a punch is as things like technique and where the punch lands; However an OHR is the more powerful punch. If some guy threw an OHR and a straight punch, both with perfect technique, the OHR will hit harder.

By slower I didn't mean the punch is traveling slower. I just meant it takes longer to connect because it's traveling in a wide arc instead of a straight line. You probably already knew that though. :icon_twis

And the winner of the smartass sherdog posting keyboard award is: Godzilla3232 !!

Congratulations man, must have been a hard job searchin your old (hope I spell this right)phisics school books for all that smart stuff...

But how about you belive some people who actualy throw some punches and train boxing/kickboxing and don't just try to imagine how it all works and then cover it up with some star-trek-voyager theorys

 

[repetitio]

You have an interesting theory. It is wrong. The power (foot pounds of force) is lost because the shoulder and body weight are not fully behind the overhand punch. The physiology of a punch when full and proper technique is used prevents the OR from ever being as powerful as a SR. You go outside the frame of the body where the same stability of the body cannot be used then the punch fails to be as powerful.

John Wayne and the old west haymakers are NOT as powerful as someone doing a straight right and the "Moe, Larry, Curly Proof" still applies.

With proper technique, I agree, the rotation is the same. There is an arc which makes the distance greater. <--We agree there BUT The ability of the body to be put behind the punch is NOT and the ability of the arm at ANY arc is reduced in the transferance of Power.

Again, I'm not arguing that an OR is not a powerful punch. I'm arguing that it is PHYSIOLOGICALLY INCAPABLE of being a more powerful punch.

Regards,

Drake

With that logic left or right hooks would be less powerful than a right cross.

If the rotation is the same then all objects connected to the body will rotate accordingly.

 

[repetitio]

ttt

 

[KarateIs4Real]

First Post by me in over ...well a few years (different account name).

You are wrong sir. Velocity plus mass equals power. Don't forget the original question was asking which creates more power...not which will knock someone out easier or any other un-asked question.
One thing inexperienced people are forgetting is basic human anatomy and physiology.

You are using a theory that since the fist and arm have a longer arc that automatically means more power. It doesn't. Ordinarily if you were talking about a piece of lead shot, you would be right. However, since the arm is attached to the shoulder and any actual power (ft/lbs) comes from the ability of the body to "back up" what is thrown...no matter what the technique a straight right hand will ALWAYS have more POWER (ft/lbs) relayed to the target vs. the overhand right.

A simple way of looking at this is the straight right is supported directly by the body. The further your arm gets away from the body (arc) and the more outside the frame of the shoulder it gets, the less power it is able to transfer (without pulling the arm out of socket at the shoulder). Technique doesn't matter here even if you get perfect technique.

No doubt, overhand rights are effective, they are VERY hard to block but that has nothing to do with the original question. THE STRAIGHT RIGHT WILL ALWAYS (100% OF THE TIME) carry more/deliver more force (ft/lbs) to the target. There's no arguing this one way or the other. These are the facts.

Regards..

Drake

your argument does make sense and i concede that the straight right has the capability to transfer more power then the overhand.

this argument arose while hitting a power meter bag. This is a stupid speed-bagsih contraption that gives an arbitrary number when hit (supposedly representing the force of the punch in Newtons). The very obvious solution is to just hit the bag twice with both punches and compare, this method was ineffective due to the inaccuracy of the machine; it was hard to justify any solution

anyways, in this situation force transfer capacity seems like less of an issue, right? because the light, free swinging bag offers very little resistance. So, it seems like the main concern when comparing to punches is the speed with which they hit. Also seems like the overhand right will hit with a significantly greater speed due to the looping motion, so the speed is generated by the arm's angular velocity multiplied by the length of the arm.

i'm not sure about this, please respond

 

[Swe_Herzeg]

i was hanging out at a bar tonight, and at some point the discussion of proper punching form arose. While i concede that a straight right hand is proper form, it is undeniable that a windmill (chuck lidell style) overhand is the more powerful punch. The windmill is more powerful because it involves the entire body (shoulders, hips, arms...) and increases the radius of the punch, therefore increasing the angular velocity e.g. momentum. My friend maintains that the straight right hand is more powerful because of its ability to distribute force upon impact. I'm sure everyone on this forum has witnessed the superiority of the overhand right, please respond to this thread with your support so i can forward this to my friend and prove him wrong.

First off, KarateIsNOTReal. As a brown belt I can say that.

Second off, streight punch is MUCH more powerful and effective than any haymaker. As a current kickboxer/mma fighter I can say that.

 

[Core]

overhand right<Straight Right

 

[jlagman]

Seriously, what's the fascincation with the overhand and power? Sure, it may be a more powerful punch, but that's not reason enough to throw it. Instead of constantly arguing which punch is more powerful, people should be discussing which punch is more effective in certain situations. The overhand is a very specialized punch which exists in a very niche environment, the cross is much more applicable to a wider variety of situations.

 

[USMCGixxer6]

all the people saying show him examples of chuck knocking someone out are idiots. I can find countless examples of a cross knocking people out.

 

[goldenarm66]

Both punches can create more than enough power to knock someone out but the straight right is clearly the most powerful because it follows a linear path to the target as opposed to an arc. The "gravity assisted" component is actually very minimal.

Didn't any of you watch "Fight Science" on the National Geographic Channel where they measured the force of punches and kicks? The boxer generated the most punching force out of any martial artist. What was his punch of choice? The straight right!

 

[jlagman]

Both punches can create more than enough power to knock someone out but the straight right is clearly the most powerful because it follows a linear path to the target as opposed to an arc. The "gravity assisted" component is actually very minimal.

Didn't any of you watch "Fight Science" on the National Geographic Channel where they measured the force of punches and kicks? The boxer generated the most punching force out of any martial artist. What was his punch of choice? The straight right!

Basically, what I learned from Fight Science is that Ninjitsu>everything else....:icon_lol:

 

[goldenarm66]

Yeah, that ninja guy was actually pretty cool!

 

[LL Cool A]

I prefer the right straight.... It is the more natural punch for me, the overhand right hurts my shoulder, it's just not a punch that feels comfortable to me.

 

[drgonzoatmpls]

Witness the power of the OHR!

If you think about how the glove is held when you punch it, more than likely your coach held it just in front of his chest for the straight and braced himself, but moved it slightly out from his body for an OHR. He would have had his body behind the straight, but just his arm behind the OH. I would say there was more resistance for the straight punch and that would account for a higher reading.

Of course everyones different (I would say my left hook is more powerful than my straight right...some would say a cool summer breeze is more powerful than my straight right) but we have to make generalizations to answer the question.

he held the glove higher on the oh punches, so his arm took more of the force, and it was closer to his body with the sraights so they probably did connect more solidly, good point, alot of us thought the oh would register higher but i wasn't even close, i know for me i can generate alot more power and cause alot more damage with a straight then an oh, my only request is that for anyone else to post an opinion on this, please have first hand knowledge (fighting expierence hit and have been hit) and don't just speculate on what you think, my guess is that most people with any fighting/punching expierence are going to agree with me that a straight is going to deliver more power then any other punch

 

[Michael Wanaka]

well this is obviously true, i'm trying to convince my friend that the overhand right is more powerful then a right cross, the argument is not over which is the more effective punch, but which is the more powerful punch

thank you

I wouldn't necessarily say that's true!