Social Hegseth reposts video on social media featuring pastors saying women shouldn’t be allowed to vote

The massive disconnect I have with people who buy into religion can be summed up in one word: Worship. Fuck that.

This is kind of surprising. I'd think your biggest disconnect (or issue) would be in regards to the imposition of beliefs and the cultural, legal, and social interface that religion has the potential to wield. Worship itself is pretty innocuous, IMO.

this is very neatly put, with the minor caveat that, I'm not sure you needed the caveat 'borderline'. I'm not sure I ever heard one of these wingnuts use the phrase 'jesus said' at all, its always 'the bible says...'. and it's always a *certain* part of the bible, as you demonstrate, thanks. we're far from the first to point to the irony of the almost total lack of theological- well, i was going to say 'sophistication' but that isn't it- depth, would be more accurate. They don't have enough theological content to develop into 'sophisticated'

A lot of people say fundie evangelical Christians would fit in well with Islamic countries operating under Sharia Law
indeed, its a fairly common one from 'lefties'

Yeah, that's the thing. They don't worship Jesus; they worship a Book. And they take it in its entirety as the literal Word of God (akin to Muslims with the Quran) rather than inspired. There is no discernment where allegorical, anagogical, literal, and tropological interpretation is concerned. There's seemingly little to no recognition of the fact that it was compiled by up to 40 different human authors across 1,500 years and spanning numerous literary genres.

Why Archaeology Always Confirms Gospel of John — But Rarely the Synoptics

Truth lies in the small details — and in the Gospel of John, those details, often tossed in without emphasis, are exactly what archaeology keeps confirming. For a long time, the Gospel of John was considered less reliable than the Synoptic Gospels. But modern research shows that nearly all of its known details are historically verifiable, offering strong proof of its authenticity.


The canonical gospels that describe the life and ministry of the figure on which the entire religion is meant to be based are often not given emphasis amongst evangelical fundamentalists (whereas they are explicitly given elevated status by the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches). This is more amusing and accurate than most people will ever care enough to know.

 
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^^ It is really quite astonishing, for both believers and the irreligious with an interest in history alike. It is either an eye witness account, or John ought to be considered an elite tier literary genius who wrote a historical novel 18 centuries before the genre itself was properly established and popularized.


Jesus of Nazareth is the most important figure in human history. Yet, an ironic fact of biblical scholarship over the last two centuries is that the one gospel claiming first-hand knowledge of the life of Jesus has been pervasively disparaged as ahistorical—off limits in the historical quest of Jesus. This, of course, is because the Gospel of John is different from the Synoptics, and especially because the three-verse Christ-hymn added as a confessional prologue (John 1:1-5, 9-13, 14 and 16-18) is highly theological in its thrust.

However, in addition to its theological features, the Fourth Gospel is also the most mundane of the gospels. John has more empirical references, topographical details, and archaeologically attested features than all the other gospels combined—canonical and otherwise. This is an empirical fact, which creates upheaval among scholarly theories regarding John’s character, origin, and implications.


Topographical and Contextual Features

Among John’s topographical features, it is obvious that the author (1) possesses first-hand familiarity with the terrain and topography of Galilee, Samaria, and Judea. The trans-Jordan baptismal site of John the Baptist is referenced (1:28), as are the stream-waters of Aenon near Salim (3:23). Elevations are familiar, as noted by traveling “down to Capernaum” (2:12) and “up to Jerusalem” (2:13; 5:1; 11:55). Passing “through Samaria” coheres with the traveled path between Galilee and Jerusalem (4:4), and Jesus and his disciples cross over to “the other side” of the lake before coming back to Capernaum—followed also by the crowd in their boats from Tiberias (6:1, 17, 22, 24-25, 59).

(2) Aramaic and Hebrew names for places and people are translated for Greek-speaking audiences and Roman names for places are also used alongside Galilean ones. These features reflect two grounded realities. First, the original settings in which John’s tradition developed made use of Aramaic and Hebraisms; this clearly reflects the Jewish ethos of Palestine. Second, the fact that these terms are translated into Greek betrays the Gospel’s being prepared for a Hellenistic setting in the Diaspora.

(3) Jewish religious and burial customs are explained for non-Jewish audiences. The Jewish Passover was near (2:13; 6:4; 11:55); stone water jars for Jewish purification were present at the wedding (2:6); Jews did not share drinking vessels with Samaritans (4:9); the Jewish festivals of Tabernacles and Dedication and the day of preparation are mentioned (7:2; 10:22; 19:14, 42—stipulating that the season of the Dedication Festival is winter, 10:22); Sabbath expectations and regulations are referenced (5:1-18; 7:22-23; 9:16; 19:31); Jewish burial customs are noted (19:40). The author thus serves as a bridge between the Jewish ministry of Jesus and the Hellenistic setting in which the Gospel is finalized.

(4) Further, tensions between Judea and Galilee are reflected in the presentation of Jerusalem leaders rejecting the idea of Jesus’ being identified the messianic Prophet because he comes from Galilee and not the city of David (7:40-44, 52). Jesus is also accused of being a Samaritan and a demoniac by the Jerusalem leaders (8:48), and being from Nazareth is disparaged by Nathanael (1:48). These features reflect socio-religious familiarity with regional tensions and rivalries internal to Palestine, and they are especially pronounced in the rejection of the Galilean prophet by the Judean leaders.

(5) In addition, personal knowledge of people and their places of origin is represented in John’s narrative. Philip, Andrew, and Peter hail from Bethsaida (1:44; 12:20-21); Nathanael is from Cana of Galilee (21:2); Judas (son of Simon) is from Kerioth in Judea (6:71; 12:4; 13:2); the home of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus is in Bethany (11:1, 18; 12:1), Jesus is from Nazareth (1:45; 18:5, 7; 19:19); Mary of Magdala features prominently in the narrative—distinguished from others with the same name by referencing her city of origin (19:25-26; 20:1, 18); and the man named providing a tomb for Jesus is Joseph of Arimathea (19:38). Thus, many people are identified by their domestic places of origin in John, reflecting features of personal knowledge within the tradition.

Mundane Features in John

In addition to Palestinian and Jewish features of John’s narrative, a number of mundane features are unique within John’s story of Jesus. (1) Distances, directions, amounts, and costs are also known and conveyed. The middle of the lake is correctly referenced as 25 or 30 stadia (furlongs—about 5-6 kilometers; the Sea of Galilee is around 11 kilometers across; 6:19), stating how far the disciples had rowed. Bethany is said to be 15 stadia (2.5 kilometers) from Jerusalem (11:18), accounting for the presence of Jewish leaders coming from Jerusalem to grieve the loss of Lazarus.

(2) Other spatial and mundane details, which play no role in the advance of the narrative, are also referenced in John. The boat is about 100 meters from shore in John 21:8 (200 pēchōn—cubits), and Jesus instructs the disciples to cast their nets on the “right” side of the boat. The number of large fishes caught up in the net is 153 (21:11—a number not readily recognizable as having a symbolic function). The fish eaten is a prepared food common to locals (opsarion, 6:9; 21:9, 13), and the bread eaten is barley loaves (krithinou, 6:9, 13). Likewise, it is the right ear of the servant that is severed, and the perpetuator’s and the victim’s names are also given: Peter and Malchus (18:10).

(3) Measures, costs, and times of day are also featured distinctively in John’s narrative. The amount of water held in six stone jars is two or three metrētas (2:6, twenty or thirty gallons), and the weight of embalming myrrh and aloes is listed as being around 100 pounds (litras hekaton, 19:39). The cost of feeding the multitude is listed as two-thirds of a year’s wage, and the cost of the pure-nard perfume is nearly a full year’s wage (200 and 300 denarii, 6:7; 12:5—details shared with Mark’s rendering). The time of day is mentioned several times: the “tenth hour,” suggesting the end of the day (1:39); the “sixth hour,” alluding to the middle of the day (4:6; 19:14); the time of the official’s son being healed was the “seventh hour,” connected with the timing of Jesus’ word from afar (4:52-53).

Archaeological Soundings in John

In the light of the above phenomena, John’s archaeological features are all the more impressive in terms of the realism they contribute to understanding the historical ministry of Jesus. These cohere with an important essay written by William Foxwell Albright in 1956, followed by Raymond E. Brown several years later. Along these lines, James H. Charlesworth has advanced the subject of archaeology and Jesus considerably, and the John, Jesus, and History Project invited fifteen papers on the subject at the Society of Biblical Literature meetings, which will be published in the near future.

(1) First, the Transjordan baptismal site of John the Baptist is distinctively referenced three times in John (1:28; 3:26; 10:40), which coheres with archaeological findings over the last several decades. What archaeologists have discovered at the site of Al-Maghtas is a series of pools on the path of Wadi al-Kharrar, a stream that flows into the Jordan River from the east. These pools show evidence of having served as ancient baptismal sites, perhaps going back to the time of Jesus. Established as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2015, this site is found along an ancient road crossing the Jordan River from the King’s Highway to Jerusalem. Pilgrimage records, monasteries, and hermitage dwellings abound from the 4th through the 6th centuries, and while certainty is elusive, the Johannine presentation of John baptizing across the Jordan—at least at this site—is confirmed by archaeological research.

(2) A second Johannine site attested by recent archaeological research involves the reference to the Pool of Bethesda in Jerusalem (John 5:2). The reference to five porticoes has been somewhat confusing to scholars, as construction in Greco-Roman times was rectangular, with virtually no pentagon structures. However, a reference to “the place of the twin pools” in Jerusalem has been found in the Qumran writings (Copper Scroll, Cave 3, Col. 11), and if there were indeed two side-by-side pools in Jerusalem, surrounded by four porches, with one running in between the pools, that would explain this unusual detail in the Fourth Gospel.

This site is located near the Church of St. Anne in Jerusalem, and this is the traditional site of the healing of the lame man in John 5. Archaeological evidence of its being a therapy and healing site in ancient times is confirmed by the discovery of Asclepius images in the area, so the man waiting for 38 years to be healed seems to match the function of the site. Archaeologists have also confirmed two pools with a column running between them, so the presentation of the healing by the Pool of Bethesda matches the archaeological evidence regarding such a setting.

(3) A second pool mentioned in the Gospel of John has also been corroborated by archaeological discoveries, but more recently. In John 9:1-11, Jesus healed the blind man and sent him to go and wash in the Pool of Siloam. Because the meaning of the word is translated (Siloam means “sent,” 9:7), scholars have assumed that because this reference carried symbolic meaning, it was theological in its origin rather than historical. After all, the man becomes something of an apostle (an apostle is “one who is sent,” with a commission), and this inference served as further evidence of John’s theological interest at the expense of historical concern. A small pool, fed by the Gihon Spring, was the assumed site of the pool for more than a century.

In 2004, however, things changed with the discovery of a second Pool of Siloam, a much larger one, a short distance away. As excavators sought to repair a water pipe, archaeologists discovered a series of steps leading down to a flat surface, which turned out to be a cleansing pool. Coins from the first century were found, suggesting that this site had been buried since that time. As a Mikveh, a Jewish pool of purification, this larger one was used for ritual cleansing and purification before people entered the temple in Jerusalem.

This also explains why the blind man was instructed by Jesus to wash in the pool, and why he was confronted by religious authorities in the temple area. If blindness was associated with impurity, the man’s healing required the rite of purification and official certification for him to be restored to social acceptance. In that sense, key features of the healing of the blind man in John 9 are corroborated by the discovery of the second Pool of Siloam. The healings by the pools in Jerusalem are also corroborated independently by the reference in Matthew 21:14 that Jesus performed healings on the blind and the lame people in the temple area of Jerusalem.

(4) A fourth detail in John’s story of Jesus is corroborated by the findings of recent excavations: the stone pavement (lithostrōtos, 19:13) has been found, upon which Pilate’s Praetorium was located. In Jerusalem, there are several sites where floors made of large stones are still visible. Then again, the term could also reference a tile mosaic or an elevated platform on which the judgment seat of Pilate would have stood. Either way, any of these options would fit the mention of “the Upper City” by Josephus as the place where Herod had his palace, coinciding with the area being referenced in the Gospel of John, where Gabbatha (Aramaic for “the high place” or “the ridge of the house”) identifies the place with a different name. The adding of an Aramaic name is thus not a translation. It is a different name used alongside the official Roman name for the same general settings, reflecting on-the-ground familiarity with the governing site of Pilate’s rule and its various appellatives. Thus, like the references to the two pools, this familiarity would have antedated the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE.

(5) A fifth feature commanding archaeological interest in the Gospel of John is the 1968 discovery of a spike driven through the heel or anklebone of a crucifixion victim in Jerusalem. The man’s name is “Jehohanan,” who was probably crucified around the time of the Roman destruction of the city in 70 CE. Josephus references 2,000 Jews being crucified in order to motivate the surrender of the city. This spike, still embedded in the heel of its victim, casts light upon three features of the Johannine crucifixion narrative.

First, it reflects the use of nails in Jerusalem crucifixions, even if the use of ropes was less costly. The Fourth Gospel alone references the use of nails in relation to the crucifixion of Jesus (20:25), and this discovery shows that John’s presentation is not simply an expansion upon a biblical text. Second, the spike, driven through the anklebone, suggests a robust means of supporting the victim’s weight, as legs were on the outsides of the wooden post, rather than feet being together. Third, the leg bone itself was fractured, reflecting crurifragium (the breaking of legs, alone mentioned in John 19:32), which helped victims die sooner.

In these and other ways, John’s presentation coheres with Roman crucifixion practices, archaeologically and historically. Despite the theological meaning attached to the piercing of the side of Jesus with a spear in 19:34-35, “fulfilling” the Scriptures of Psalm 34:20 and Zechariah 12:10 as attested by the truth-telling eyewitness, this does not mean these sorts of reports were concocted. Further, the fact that Jehohanan was given a proper burial also corroborates the desire of Jesus’ followers in John to place him in a proper tomb. The reference to the tomb offered by Joseph of Arimathea as an unused tomb in John 19:41 is also corroborated by Luke 23:53, as Luke adds to his use of Mark one of more than 70 details or features that coincide with John. Thus, the Johannine crucifixion account bears with it a good deal of independent realism, which archaeological findings corroborate.
 
I hope folks who thinks women shouldn't be allowed to vote are just letting off steam in a playful way. It's such an idiotic stance.

People like you are worse than them tbh

You think everyone is trolling because you can’t fathom it yet they continue to gain power, influence politics and change laws

We take outsiders views literally but then assume the best for people living amongst us that can actually hurt us
 
FWIW: John is the most authoritative book in the entire bible, from both a secular and religious POV. Why? Because it was written by the apostle who knew the historical Jesus better than any human being to ever walk the planet during his public life

This is debated, right?

Because from a secular perspective, I thought mainstream consensus was that the book of John was written by Johannine community in 90-100 CE and, unless we attribute it to like pre-70 CE, I have a hard time buying the timeline.
 
This is debated, right?

Because from a secular perspective, I thought mainstream consensus was that the book of John was written by Johannine community in 90-100 CE and, unless we attribute it to like pre-70 CE, I have a hard time buying the timeline.

Yes. I'm jumping to the finish line based on what is becoming increasingly undeniable and inevitable. John can't objectively be considered the most ahistorical and unreliable while simultaneously the most historically attested, grounded and culturally, geographically, and archeologically verified. There was yet another discovery just this year that corroborates the existence of the garden described at the site of his crucifixion.


It's becoming comical.


In an updated, comprehensive survey of the archaeological status of all topographical references in John, Urban C. von Wahlde indicates that of the 20 Johannine sites, 16 have been identified with certainty: Bethsaida (1:44); Cana (2:1, 11; 4:46‑54; 21:2); Capernaum (2:12; 4:46; 6:17, 24); the harbor (6:24, 25); the synagogue (v. 59); Jacob’s well (4:4‑6); Mount Gerizim (4:20); the location of Sychar (4:5); the Sheep Gate (5:2); the pool(s) of Bethesda (5:2); Tiberias (6:1, 23; 21:2); the pool of Siloam (9:1‑9); Bethany, near Jerusalem (11:1‑17; 12:1‑11); Ephraim (11:54); the Kidron Valley (18:1); the Praetorium (18:28, 33; 19:9); Golgotha (19:17, 18, 20, 41); and the tomb of Jesus (19:41, 42). Of the remaining four, two can be narrowed to within a relatively restricted area: the place in the temple precincts for the keeping of animals (2:13‑16) and the place where Pilate brought Jesus (19:13); the other two are still highly controversial: Aenon near Salim (3:23) and Bethany beyond the Jordan (1:28; 10:40).

In his concluding observations, von Wahlde makes two important statements. The first is that archaeology has confirmed the remarkable accuracy of the topographical information in John, with a great number of details provided in some instances. As a matter of fact, he says, “It is precisely those places described in the greatest detail,” as in the case of the pools of Bethesda, the place of crucifixion, and the location of Jesus’ tomb, “that can be identified with the greatest certitude.” The second statement is that there is “no credible evidence to suggest that any of the twenty sites is simply fictitious or symbolic.” Though acknowledging the possibility of some sites having a secondary symbolic meaning, von Wahlde concludes that “the intrinsic historicity and accuracy of the references should be beyond doubt.”


This is scheduled to drop in May 2026, and hopefully they have sufficient time to update it. It's long past time to shift the scholarly consensus.




For years, the Gospel of John has been excluded from historical Jesus studies because of its distinctive theological and literary features. Yet while John’s Gospel is often characterized as “the spiritual Gospel,” it actually contains more archaeologically attested content and topographical details than all the other gospels combined. In this groundbreaking volume, renowned archaeologists discuss the Fourth Gospel’s material features and show how those features enrich our understanding of the historical Jesus.

More than two dozen contributors present evidence of the Fourth Gospel’s historical reliability. Some of the contributors focus on Johannine descriptions of Jesus’s ministry, using archaeological expertise to illuminate narrative details ranging from the stone jars in Cana to the fishing industry in Galilee. Other contributors focus on Johannine discussions of places and customs, bringing archaeological research to bear on narrative references to worship sites on Mt. Gerazim, the second pool of Siloam, crucifixion practices of imperial Rome, and more.

Throughout the volume, research findings are documented with compelling images. Following discussions of specific archaeological data, the book concludes with a broad overview of the implications for historical Jesus studies. By challenging the longstanding critical bias against the Fourth Gospel’s historical content, Archaeology, Jesus, and the Gospel of John lays the groundwork for a new quest for the historical Jesus—an inclusive quest that fully engages the Johannine account.
 
It's also "The Problematic Gospel", but that's what happens when you're in the middle of a very nasty, permanent divorce from your own ethno-religious heritage and identity as John was. "The Jews" are referred to in a hostile manner dozens of times.



j5.jpg
 
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This is debated, right?

Because from a secular perspective, I thought mainstream consensus was that the book of John was written by Johannine community in 90-100 CE and, unless we attribute it to like pre-70 CE, I have a hard time buying the timeline.
Yes. I'm jumping to the finish line based on what is becoming increasingly undeniable and inevitable. John can't objectively be considered the most ahistorical and unreliable while simultaneously the most historically attested, grounded and culturally, geographically, and archeologically verified. There was yet another discovery just this year that corroborates the existence of the garden described at the site of his crucifixion.


It's becoming comical.


In an updated, comprehensive survey of the archaeological status of all topographical references in John, Urban C. von Wahlde indicates that of the 20 Johannine sites, 16 have been identified with certainty: Bethsaida (1:44); Cana (2:1, 11; 4:46‑54; 21:2); Capernaum (2:12; 4:46; 6:17, 24); the harbor (6:24, 25); the synagogue (v. 59); Jacob’s well (4:4‑6); Mount Gerizim (4:20); the location of Sychar (4:5); the Sheep Gate (5:2); the pool(s) of Bethesda (5:2); Tiberias (6:1, 23; 21:2); the pool of Siloam (9:1‑9); Bethany, near Jerusalem (11:1‑17; 12:1‑11); Ephraim (11:54); the Kidron Valley (18:1); the Praetorium (18:28, 33; 19:9); Golgotha (19:17, 18, 20, 41); and the tomb of Jesus (19:41, 42). Of the remaining four, two can be narrowed to within a relatively restricted area: the place in the temple precincts for the keeping of animals (2:13‑16) and the place where Pilate brought Jesus (19:13); the other two are still highly controversial: Aenon near Salim (3:23) and Bethany beyond the Jordan (1:28; 10:40).

In his concluding observations, von Wahlde makes two important statements. The first is that archaeology has confirmed the remarkable accuracy of the topographical information in John, with a great number of details provided in some instances. As a matter of fact, he says, “It is precisely those places described in the greatest detail,” as in the case of the pools of Bethesda, the place of crucifixion, and the location of Jesus’ tomb, “that can be identified with the greatest certitude.” The second statement is that there is “no credible evidence to suggest that any of the twenty sites is simply fictitious or symbolic.” Though acknowledging the possibility of some sites having a secondary symbolic meaning, von Wahlde concludes that “the intrinsic historicity and accuracy of the references should be beyond doubt.”


This is scheduled to drop in May 2026, and hopefully they have sufficient time to update it. It's long past time to shift the scholarly consensus.




For years, the Gospel of John has been excluded from historical Jesus studies because of its distinctive theological and literary features. Yet while John’s Gospel is often characterized as “the spiritual Gospel,” it actually contains more archaeologically attested content and topographical details than all the other gospels combined. In this groundbreaking volume, renowned archaeologists discuss the Fourth Gospel’s material features and show how those features enrich our understanding of the historical Jesus.

More than two dozen contributors present evidence of the Fourth Gospel’s historical reliability. Some of the contributors focus on Johannine descriptions of Jesus’s ministry, using archaeological expertise to illuminate narrative details ranging from the stone jars in Cana to the fishing industry in Galilee. Other contributors focus on Johannine discussions of places and customs, bringing archaeological research to bear on narrative references to worship sites on Mt. Gerazim, the second pool of Siloam, crucifixion practices of imperial Rome, and more.

Throughout the volume, research findings are documented with compelling images. Following discussions of specific archaeological data, the book concludes with a broad overview of the implications for historical Jesus studies. By challenging the longstanding critical bias against the Fourth Gospel’s historical content, Archaeology, Jesus, and the Gospel of John lays the groundwork for a new quest for the historical Jesus—an inclusive quest that fully engages the Johannine account.

Ofc, the authorship itself has also been debated. But if John didn't write the Gospel of John, then who did and how could they know so many specific details of pre-70 AD Judea (and Samaria and Galilee) with such archeologically verified precision? It's simply labeled as "anonymous" for "reasons" and that just doesn't cut the mustard. If anything, it's kind of unbecoming of secular scholarship. Nobody even questioned this until the 1800s, and there is no viable alternative presented in the form of actual known persons.

On the otherhand, there at least a half dozen ancient sources spread between modern day Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Tunisia, Italy, and France within the 2nd and early 3rd century that affirm his authorship. Like all of the New Testament, it was originally written in Koine Greek. Despite every indication (and church tradition) pointing to John spending the last several decades of his life in Greek speaking Ephesus, it's possible and maybe even likely he utilized an amanuensis (scribe) to lay the literal text down, but the authorship and diction is his. Even the Apostle Paul (a highly educated and literate Hellenistic Jew) employed a scribe in his epistle to the Romans.
 
Yes. I'm jumping to the finish line based on what is becoming increasingly undeniable and inevitable. John can't objectively be considered the most ahistorical and unreliable while simultaneously the most historically attested, grounded and culturally, geographically, and archeologically verified. There was yet another discovery just this year that corroborates the existence of the garden described at the site of his crucifixion.


It's becoming comical.


In an updated, comprehensive survey of the archaeological status of all topographical references in John, Urban C. von Wahlde indicates that of the 20 Johannine sites, 16 have been identified with certainty: Bethsaida (1:44); Cana (2:1, 11; 4:46‑54; 21:2); Capernaum (2:12; 4:46; 6:17, 24); the harbor (6:24, 25); the synagogue (v. 59); Jacob’s well (4:4‑6); Mount Gerizim (4:20); the location of Sychar (4:5); the Sheep Gate (5:2); the pool(s) of Bethesda (5:2); Tiberias (6:1, 23; 21:2); the pool of Siloam (9:1‑9); Bethany, near Jerusalem (11:1‑17; 12:1‑11); Ephraim (11:54); the Kidron Valley (18:1); the Praetorium (18:28, 33; 19:9); Golgotha (19:17, 18, 20, 41); and the tomb of Jesus (19:41, 42). Of the remaining four, two can be narrowed to within a relatively restricted area: the place in the temple precincts for the keeping of animals (2:13‑16) and the place where Pilate brought Jesus (19:13); the other two are still highly controversial: Aenon near Salim (3:23) and Bethany beyond the Jordan (1:28; 10:40).

In his concluding observations, von Wahlde makes two important statements. The first is that archaeology has confirmed the remarkable accuracy of the topographical information in John, with a great number of details provided in some instances. As a matter of fact, he says, “It is precisely those places described in the greatest detail,” as in the case of the pools of Bethesda, the place of crucifixion, and the location of Jesus’ tomb, “that can be identified with the greatest certitude.” The second statement is that there is “no credible evidence to suggest that any of the twenty sites is simply fictitious or symbolic.” Though acknowledging the possibility of some sites having a secondary symbolic meaning, von Wahlde concludes that “the intrinsic historicity and accuracy of the references should be beyond doubt.”


This is scheduled to drop in May 2026, and hopefully they have sufficient time to update it. It's long past time to shift the scholarly consensus.




For years, the Gospel of John has been excluded from historical Jesus studies because of its distinctive theological and literary features. Yet while John’s Gospel is often characterized as “the spiritual Gospel,” it actually contains more archaeologically attested content and topographical details than all the other gospels combined. In this groundbreaking volume, renowned archaeologists discuss the Fourth Gospel’s material features and show how those features enrich our understanding of the historical Jesus.

More than two dozen contributors present evidence of the Fourth Gospel’s historical reliability. Some of the contributors focus on Johannine descriptions of Jesus’s ministry, using archaeological expertise to illuminate narrative details ranging from the stone jars in Cana to the fishing industry in Galilee. Other contributors focus on Johannine discussions of places and customs, bringing archaeological research to bear on narrative references to worship sites on Mt. Gerazim, the second pool of Siloam, crucifixion practices of imperial Rome, and more.

Throughout the volume, research findings are documented with compelling images. Following discussions of specific archaeological data, the book concludes with a broad overview of the implications for historical Jesus studies. By challenging the longstanding critical bias against the Fourth Gospel’s historical content, Archaeology, Jesus, and the Gospel of John lays the groundwork for a new quest for the historical Jesus—an inclusive quest that fully engages the Johannine account.

I don't want to ignore this take because it felt like you put a lot of effort into it and I did read through it, however, I don't think I'm challenging the authenticity or your beliefs as much as I was questioning the idea that it was the consensus position amongst non-believers that John the Apostle wrote the book himself. I don't have any stats or science to defend my position, this is just a 100% anecdotal take by me from prior religious debates.

Ofc, the authorship itself has also been debated. But if John didn't write the Gospel of John, then who did and how could they know so many specific details of pre-70 AD Judea (and Samaria and Galilee) with such archeologically verified precision? It's simply labeled as "anonymous" for "reasons" and that just doesn't cut the mustard. If anything, it's kind of unbecoming of secular scholarship. Nobody even questioned this until the 1800s, and there is no viable alternative presented in the form of actual known persons.

On the otherhand, there at least a half dozen ancient sources spread between modern day Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Tunisia, Italy, and France within the 2nd and early 3rd century that affirm his authorship. Like all of the New Testament, it was originally written in Koine Greek. Despite every indication (and church tradition) pointing to John spending the last several decades of his life in Greek speaking Ephesus, it's possible and maybe even likely he utilized an amanuensis (scribe) to lay the literal text down, but the authorship and diction is his. Even the Apostle Paul (a highly educated and literate Hellenistic Jew) employed a scribe in his epistle to the Romans.

I feel like I'm walking into a trap here, but I'm dumb enough to do so anyway. What details could John's followers have not known via oral traditions, collective memory, etc in the following decades?
 
I don't want to ignore this take because it felt like you put a lot of effort into it and I did read through it, however, I don't think I'm challenging the authenticity or your beliefs as much as I was questioning the idea that it was the consensus position amongst non-believers that John the Apostle wrote the book himself. I don't have any stats or science to defend my position, this is just a 100% anecdotal take by me from prior religious debates.

I feel like I'm walking into a trap here, but I'm dumb enough to do so anyway. What details could John's followers have not known via oral traditions, collective memory, etc in the following decades?

Not at all bro, lol. The biggest issue is not even who wrote it, but rather historic validity in terms of what can be verified through fields of modern research. In that case and in light of the discoveries made over the last century (including many within the last couple of decades), it is the Gospel of John. I heavily lean towards apostle authorship based on the sheer surplus of details and descriptions where customs, costs, distances, directions, materials, persons, and places are concerned. They are very easy to miss and overlook because it's filled with so much high octane theology and a portrayal of Jesus that ditches the parables and proverbial sayings for extended dialogues, discourses, and extraordinary statements.
 
Yeah, that's the thing. They don't worship Jesus; they worship a Book. And they take it in its entirety as the literal Word of God (akin to Muslims with the Quran) rather than inspired. There is no discernment where allegorical, anagogical, literal, and tropological interpretation is concerned.

these are intellectual subtleties of a kind that is entirely alien to the Evangielost crowd. whether they chose evangelism because it suited their shallow intellects, or whether evangelism actively stripped them of intellectual depth with its hamfisted dogmatism, may be open to debate. I suspect the latter is largely true but also that it was pushing at an open door RE: distrust of 'intellectualism'.
 
At this point, we'd probably be more successful choosing leaders by picking names out of a hat.
That's called sortition, and it's not a bad idea. It was used in the past by Greece back in the day, and it's still how we run our legal system. By all means bring it on.
 
That's called sortition, and it's not a bad idea. It was used in the past by Greece back in the day, and it's still how we run our legal system. By all means bring it on.
I really was only half joking. If we didn't have such a dumb population, I'd be 100% on board.
 
That's called sortition, and it's not a bad idea. It was used in the past by Greece back in the day, and it's still how we run our legal system. By all means bring it on.
Huh, I didn’t know it had a name. Makes sense seeings as how it’s sentient and anthropomorphic .

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It's always funny to watch the fragmentation of the reactionary hivemind when stories like this come up. One faction says " Oh no, we don't believe in this at all. We're not a bunch of misogynists. In fact, it's the other side that hates women because [insert transphobic screed here]". Another says "well obviously we believe this, but it's not the time to be open about it yet". The only honest right wingers say "yes, of course we believe women are nothing more than baby factories. What of it you woke cuck SJW libtard?"
 
I really was only half joking. If we didn't have such a dumb population, I'd be 100% on board.
I would take a dumb person that an indurstry does not have in it's pocket, who understands right from wrong, over the vast majority of smart people in our government right now.
 
I would take a dumb person that an indurstry does not have in it's pocket.
Assassinations/attempts would mysteriously rise by 1000% Probably get six different Presidents per year, if they're not corrupted by all the sharks within 24 hours of being sworn in.
 
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Assassinations/attempts would mysteriously rise by 1000% Probably get six different Presidents per year, if they're not corrupted by all the sharks within 24 hours of being sworn in.
Oh dude.....when you go random sortition, you can't just go with 1 person. Gotta have a random committee like congress or a jury. You would have an Executive Committee, not a President. My guess is with the rate technology is developing, in 20 years or so we would just be able to govern by referendum, without elected officials at all. Then the sharks would literally have to bribe everyone.
 
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