Heavyweight is the most overrated division of all time.

[revoltub]

Oh shit. Wasn't this a Conor thread?

i think every thread is a conor thread, in some kind of way

 

[Stixx]

people act like heavyweight is some untouchable division that stands above the lower weights with titans and giants who punch like iron fisted superheros.

But let us look at the facts.

Rumble Johnson started at WW and was able to beat Arlovski at heavyweight.

vitor belfort fought at MW and is 4 and 1 at HW. his only loss being against couture, not a natural HW.

Couture himself was a natural LHW and has had arguably more success at HW than he did at LHW.

Daniel Cormier was undefeated at HW, with his only loss being at LHW along with the only adversity he has faced being at LHW, not HW.

Overeem was struggling at LHW until he started eating horsemeat, went to HW, and went on a crazy win streak as well as a k-1 championship.


The honest truth is that LHW has been a better division than HW forever, as well as MW.

Not to mention, HW division isn't a real heavyweight. it has a CAP. A true Heavyweight division has NO cap.

I get what you're saying, but imo there are several flaws in your assessment, TS.

Mainly one pretty significant fact, namely that many LHWs have stated that there is a reason they don't fight at HW; The fighters are just too damn big! Who knows better than the fighters themselves?

Of course any fighter of any size will always have a chance of defeating the bigger man - Manhoef KO'ed Hunt for crying out loud! Rumble had success too, as you mentioned, but he also said after the Arkovski fight that HW was not for him - the guys are just too big. Rampage has said the same. And please don't talk about natural weight of fighters and then mention that Rumble was a WW - he was a walking corpse at WW so it's a moot point.

Couture became the champ, sure. There are many examples of LHWs doing well at HW. Being big guys themselves, it's only natural that they have better chances than lighter fighters, but my point is that you generally just can't ignore the differences in sheer size, power and brute strength that HWs possess. This comes from the fighters themselves.
Look at Ben Rothwell! One of the least athletic fighters in the UFC, but he's a bear, man! He'd rip the head off Anderson Silva, although I would never count out Anderson from pulling off some kind of Matrix shit against anyone on the planet. A fight is a fight, but size matters.

 

[TerraRayzing]

maybe to you. but this thread was about LHW anyway

So to you, it means everything, got it.

Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage, it's unfair that people treat him like he was second rate now because he wasn't aesthetic enough.

I might have to watch the rampage fight again but I remember thinking it was a draw or a rampage win. No disrespect to griffin, gutsy fighter with lots of heart but he was never truly elite. Not saying he sucked at all. Also, didn't he get knocked out in camp before the silva fight?

 

[revoltub]

I get what you're saying, but imo there are several flaws in your assessment, TS.

Mainly one pretty significant fact, namely that many LHWs have stated that there is a reason they don't fight at HW; The fighters are just too damn big! Who knows better than the fighters themselves?

Of course any fighter of any size will always have a chance of defeating the bigger man - Manhoef KO'ed Hunt for crying out loud! Rumble had success too, as you mentioned, but he also said after the Arkovski fight that HW was not for him - the guys are just too big. Rampage has said the same. And please don't talk about natural weight of fighters and then mention that Rumble was a WW - he was a walking corpse at WW so it's a moot point.

Couture became the champ, sure. There are many examples of LHWs doing well at HW. Being big guys themselves, it's only natural that they have better chances than lighter fighters, but my point is that you generally just can't ignore the differences in sheer size, power and brute strength that HWs possess. This comes from the fighters themselves.
Look at Ben Rothwell! One of the least athletic fighters in the UFC, but he's a bear, man! He'd rip the head off Anderson Silva, although I would never count out Anderson from pulling off some kind of Matrix shit against anyone on the planet. A fight is a fight, but size matters.

true but the best HW's have never been the biggest beside sylvia for a time.

 

[revoltub]

So to you, it means everything, got it.



I might have to watch the rampage fight again but I remember thinking it was a draw or a rampage win. No disrespect to griffin, gutsy fighter with lots of heart but he was never truly elite. Not saying he sucked at all. Also, didn't he get knocked out in camp before the silva fight?

I meant it wasnt about LHW

 

[Obsidian Fracture]

Let's just call this guys. We all know that elite lighter fighters can beat heavier opponents. We all know that fighting larger men has some advantages like speed and cardio. Most of the time, the bigger men's advantages like power, reach and strength outweigh the smaller guys advantages.

Just look at the open weight K1 and PRIDE tournaments for all the info you need.

UFC heavyweight just needs some fresh blood. If Cain had remained uninjured we would probably be talking about how this is the golden age of HW. Just need a dominate champ to come along and HW will be back on the map.