Crime Headlining Crime Megathread Vol 4.

[IamStryker]

Well, if you assault someone with an unknown liquid concoction, it's pretty stupid to not assume that they're going to be offended enough by it to respond. And, yes, self defense because the people being shot at have no way of knowing if this individual is going to continue his assault or not. So some kind of action to prevent a repetition of the assault might be necessary.

We know it's water. We know it was a stupid prank. In the moment - can we just assume that the victims of the initial know this?

If someone you don't know ran up to your wife and kid and shot them with some kind of liquid, you wouldn't act? I use "wife and kid" to personalize the fact pattern, to intentionally reach for an emotional trigger. Because for the people being shot and being shot at, their emotional response has to be considered.

Some of the dumbest argumentation I have ever read. The only thing you got right is they were offended. Crazy that you think beating on this 17 year old is a justifiable response.

 

[Source]

Attacking the source and no other argunent says a lot about you. Let's hear your amazing guess as to why they got in the car after beating this kid?

I had previously explained why they moved it. I provided my source early in our conversation. What more do you want?

You started with a lie, and it was exposed. Instead of admitting it you doubled down with a garbage source that built a bigger lie on top of it. You have been dishonest multiple times already in this thread. If anyone has a character issue here it’s you. There is no point in continuing with you.

 

[panamaican]

Some of the dumbest argumentation I have ever read. The only thing you got right is they were offended. Crazy that you think beating on this 17 year old is a justifiable response.

I'm going to point out how you keep jumping past the provocative initial action and are only judging the response to it.

So, I'll restate my previous comment -- if some stranger ran up to your wife and kid and shot them with an unknown liquid concoction, would you act?

 

[IamStryker]

I had previously explained why they moved it. I provided my source early in our conversation. What more do you want?

You think they moved the car to prevent them from fleeing? Are you retarded? The murderers fled themselves. They didn't stay and wait for police.

You started with a lie, and it was exposed. Instead of admitting it you doubled down with a garbage source that built a bigger lie on top of it. You have been dishonest multiple times already in this thread. If anyone has a character issue here it’s you. There is no point in continuing with you.

I'm just going to go with you are retarded. They beat this kid unconcious and then got in the car and drove it. Explain how that isnt stealing the car? You didn't know shit about this case and keep spewing your nonsense justifications in defense of these awful people.

Good you are done so you stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[Terry Noonan]

I'm going to point out how you keep jumping past the provocative initial action and are only judging the response to it.

So, I'll restate my previous comment -- if some stranger ran up to your wife and kid and shot them with an unknown liquid concoction, would you act?

How long was this interaction? The article referenced doesn’t state it. If it’s a bang bang play I see your point. If time passes and they get into a fight and the guy wasn’t presently shooting them with “water pellets” (what the hell are water pellets, is it a paintball gun and not a pellet gun?) would imagine that’s not really self defense.


Taking the car and moving it doesn’t seem like the “right” thing to do.

 

[panamaican]

How long was this interaction? The article referenced doesn’t state it. If it’s a bang bang play I see your point. If time passes and they get into a fight and the guy wasn’t presently shooting them with “water pellets” (what the hell are water pellets, is it a paintball gun and not a pellet gun?) would imagine that’s not really self defense.

My impression, and I've only read the link in the OP and one other article, is that the dude was shooting at them with the water pellet gun at the basketball court so they approached him and then the altercation kicked off. So, it's pretty "in the moment" but not a "bang bang" thing.

Also, I don't have any idea if the shooter was in his car and got out when approached or if he was already outside of the car when he started shooting...at complete fucking strangers for no clear reason.

 

[IamStryker]

I'm going to point out how you keep jumping past the provocative initial action and are only judging the response to it.

I've never denied that they started the interaction. I just won't try to stupidly call this self defense.

So, I'll restate my previous comment -- if some stranger ran up to your wife and kid and shot them with an unknown liquid concoction, would you act?

I would obviously respond in some fashion but OBVIOUSLY I couldn't beat and stomp on the kid and call it self defense. FFS

 

[Terry Noonan]

My impression, and I've only read the link in the OP and one other article, is that the dude was shooting at them with the water pellet gun at the basketball court so they approached him and then the altercation kicked off. So, it's pretty "in the moment" but not a "bang bang" thing.

Also, I don't have any idea if the shooter was in his car and got out when approached or if he was already outside of the car when he started shooting...at complete fucking strangers for no clear reason.

Seems like a fuck around situation.

 

[Broke Lester]

I’m not sure you understand my post, I meant is this a nationwide problem? Do people care? I never see protests. All I see are outraged Americans. Sometimes when you talk to people from these countries they don’t know what we are even talking about

What I can’t understand is how one could could come to the conclusion you have when bombs are going kaboom. @Son of Jamin is from there, he seems to recognize the problem. Yes I know you’re programmed to run interference at all cost.

 

[panamaican]

I've never denied that they started the interaction. I just won't try to stupidly call this self defense.



I would obviously respond in some fashion but OBVIOUSLY I couldn't beat and stomp on the kid and call it self defense. FFS

I'll help you with the self defense part. Starting with the people being shot, 2 questions:

1) They knew what they were being shot with?

2) They knew that this person was not going to continue shooting at them?

 

[panamaican]

Seems like a fuck around situation.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Loiosh]

Exactly...
I lived +40 years in Sweden as a first gen immigrant.
I grew up in a bad neighborhood and I have/had friends in organized crime back in the day.
Anybody with any knowledge of Sweden will tell you that yes this is a problem connected to immigration and piss poor integration.
Sadly you will never get any statistic as you very well know since Sweden does not do statistic over where the criminals come from if Swedish citizens.

No the strongest examples are all the dead people who all are more or less 1 or 2 gen immigrants. Second or as strong is the people that get sentence for the murders are 1 or 2 gen immigrants.

I mean even the Swedish left leaning medias is these days very open about the problems here.

Only some one NOT from Sweden would in 2023 try and argue this has nothing to do with immigration.

This is what the Swedish prime minister said yesterday evening:
""They must be locked up, and they must be expelled from the country if they are not Swedish citizens. We will hunt them down and we will win them over."

It is VERY clear to everybody here that the majority involved in this shit are immigrants. Its not even debatable.

Now this is a karate forum... I am not here to discuss Swedish politics or Sweden, with tourists.
So this will probably be my last reply in here.

Yes, I'm a tourist, I always say up front when I don't have much education on a subject.

I do have a lot of questions but I appreciate your input and respect your wishes.

 

[IamStryker]

I'll help you with the self defense part. Starting with the people being shot, 2 questions:

1) They knew what they were being shot with?

It was a toy gun and if they were hit then they knew it was a liquid. Let's assume the worst and the liquid is harmful somehow. Self defense would be running up to them to make them stop. You can't beat and stomp on someone and claim self defense.

2) They knew that this person was not going to continue shooting at them?

I have seen no evidence to suggest these men were scared of the liquid and therefore beat and stomped on one of the pranksters and then stole the car and fled the scene. Very nonsensical.

 

[lsa]

Yes, I'm a tourist, I always say up front when I don't have much education on a subject.

I do have a lot of questions but I appreciate your input and respect your wishes.

I will give you one last post, this is a terrible translation of the Swedish prime ministers speech that just ended not even 30 min ago:
"Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson (M) tonight gave a speech to the nation in connection with the deadly wave of violence. He says that he has summoned Supreme Commander Micael Bydén and National Police Chief Anders Thornberg to discuss how the Armed Forces could assist the police. "I cannot stress enough how serious the situation is. Sweden has never seen anything like it – no country in Europe sees anything like it. He mentions some of the innocent people murdered during the wave of violence. "A 25-year-old woman went to bed yesterday, an ordinary evening, but was never allowed to wake up again. "Political naivety and cluelessness" – irresponsible immigration policy and failed integration – have brought Sweden to this point, according to the Prime Minister. He mentions the tightening that the government is now making in the criminal legislation, and emphasizes the importance of deporting criminal foreign citizens. "We will do what is necessary to restore security in Sweden."

Here is a direct link to the text in Swedish
https://omni.se/kristersson-kallar-till-sig-ob-ska-diskutera-om-militaren-kan-bista-polisen/a/pQeKEo

And here is the speech it self in Swedish on the governments website
https://regeringen.se/pressmeddelan...ter-ulf-kristersson-haller-tal-till-nationen/

 

[panamaican]

It was a toy gun and if they were hit then they knew it was a liquid. Let's assume the worst and the liquid is harmful somehow. Self defense would be running up to them to make them stop. You can't beat and stomp on someone and claim self defense.



I have seen no evidence to suggest these men were scared of the liquid and therefore beat and stomped on one of the pranksters and then stole the car and fled the scene. Very nonsensical.

So:
No, they didn't know what they were being shot with.
No, they didn't know if they were going to continue being shot at by their assailant.

Self defense certainly allows them to takes steps to prevent an ongoing assault by an unknown assailant with an unknown liquid concoction. And that would include subduing their assailant physically. Pretty straightforward self-defense. Tragic outcome notwithstanding.

This isn't new legal territory. If Person A walks up and slaps Person B, Person B can respond physically. If doesn't matter if Person B hits harder than Person A. They have no way of knowing if Person A's actions will continue or not, so they can take steps to ensure they won't continue being victimized.

 

[scoopj]

Don’t forget he died from hitting his head on the pavement after being knocked out in a fight he instigated. It’s a sad preventable tragedy, but it’s not some miscarriage of justice.

I was responding to this comment you made, which made no mention of the stomping:

Also from the article. Not quite the beating that TS alleged.

Liming died when his head hit the pavement after being punched in the face, according to authorities. The medical examiner ruled his death a homicide.

According to the medical examiner’s report, Liming’s injuries included “relatively superficial injuries to the face, torso, legs, arms and left hand.”

 

[Loiosh]

I will give you one last post, this is a terrible translation of the Swedish prime ministers speech that just ended not even 30 min ago:
"Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson (M) tonight gave a speech to the nation in connection with the deadly wave of violence. He says that he has summoned Supreme Commander Micael Bydén and National Police Chief Anders Thornberg to discuss how the Armed Forces could assist the police. "I cannot stress enough how serious the situation is. Sweden has never seen anything like it – no country in Europe sees anything like it. He mentions some of the innocent people murdered during the wave of violence. "A 25-year-old woman went to bed yesterday, an ordinary evening, but was never allowed to wake up again. "Political naivety and cluelessness" – irresponsible immigration policy and failed integration – have brought Sweden to this point, according to the Prime Minister. He mentions the tightening that the government is now making in the criminal legislation, and emphasizes the importance of deporting criminal foreign citizens. "We will do what is necessary to restore security in Sweden."

Here is a direct link to the text in Swedish
https://omni.se/kristersson-kallar-till-sig-ob-ska-diskutera-om-militaren-kan-bista-polisen/a/pQeKEo

And here is the speech it self in Swedish on the governments website
https://regeringen.se/pressmeddelan...ter-ulf-kristersson-haller-tal-till-nationen/

Thanks again.

I won't ask you go drill down, but when you're inevitably referenced by degenerates like Scerpi who just hate brown people, I'll challenge them to back up what they say. That's what they want here, proof that brown immigration is a problem everywhere.

 

[IamStryker]

So:
No, they didn't know what they were being shot with.

Liquid from a toy gun.

No, they didn't know if they were going to continue being shot at by their assailant.

Where are you getting this information? They could have stopped shooting and been trying to leave in which case they would have known. You also need to prove they were scared of the liquid which there is no reason to believe that.

Self defense certainly allows them to takes steps to prevent an ongoing assault by an unknown assailant with an unknown liquid concoction. And that would include subduing their assailant physically. Pretty straightforward self-defense. Tragic outcome notwithstanding.

You said "ongoing" yourself. How do you even know that? Now if it was ongoing then I agree they could take steps to make it stop but not what they did. Beating and stomping the kid is NOT defending yourself from that water gun. They wanted retribution over their feelings and you know it.

This isn't new legal territory. If Person A walks up and slaps Person B, Person B can respond physically. If doesn't matter if Person B hits harder than Person A. They have no way of knowing if Person A's actions will continue or not, so they can take steps to ensure they won't continue being victimized.

Again there is no reason to believe they were scared of the toy water gun liquid lol.

 

[Zazen]

What I can’t understand is how one could could come to the conclusion you have when bombs are going kaboom. @Son of Jamin is from there, he seems to recognize the problem. Yes I know you’re programmed to run interference at all cost.

You seem to be misunderstanding me. I wanted to know if this is indeed a problem and not just something right wingers grabbed on to. Like when I go to China most people are happy and want to stay there but Charlie Kirk says everyone wants out. Sometimes these incidents are far more rare than we imagine and it might not be something people there think is a problem that’s all I’m saying. I just want to know how widespread it is

 

[panamaican]

Liquid from a toy gun.



Where are you getting this information? They could have stopped shooting and been trying to leave in which case they would have known. You also need to prove they were scared of the liquid which there is no reason to believe that.



You said "ongoing" yourself. How do you even know that? Now if it was ongoing then I agree they could take steps to make it stop but not what they did. Beating and stomping the kid is NOT defending yourself from that water gun. They wanted retribution over their feelings and you know it.



Again there is no reason to believe they were scared of the toy water gun liquid lol.

You already answered my questions, no point changing it now.

I asked you what they knew. You acknowledged, indirectly, that they didn't know these things.

If you're going to change your position to saying that they knew with certainty these things, please source it. Short of that, I'll stick with your initial responses where they didn't know.