Has MMA really evolved?

icemun said:
Well if you're comparing fighters from less than a decade ago, probably not.

But beyond that, Rich Franklin was a MW champion while being a math teacher and look what Silva did to him.

Further back I'm certain a prime Tito Ortiz, Shamrock, Chuck or Royce Gracie could compete in todays environment at all.

So yes the sport has evolved considerably.
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Rich Franklin would have KO’d Marvin Vittori….put some hespec on Ace’s name fool.
 
Coconutwater said:
Overall, fighters are better, more well-rounded and better conditioned. There were some really fat slobs back in the day, now, not so much.
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Exactly!
Also brawlers.
They were also not well rounded fighters, since most came from a different Martial art (Strikers, Wrestlers or ground fighters only), with no idea about the other facets of MMA.

Heck, in the old days, you had different teachers, each one teaching a different facet of MMA.
Now most fighters grow up learning all of them together. They know what complement each other, what is not worth teaching for MMA.
 
Heavyweight has definitely gone backwards, we've had maybe handful of guys with promising elite skillsets or specialists that have transitioned to MMA in the last 10 years such as Cain, Brock, Stipe, Blaydes, DC, Rosholt (bust), Konrad (retired early)....we don't see many high level grapplers / kickboxing crossovers transition like we use to. Pride / Mid Era UFC had Sergei, Werdum, Hunt, Cro Cop, Nog, Fedor, Coleman, Randleman, Barnett, Mir, Monson, Schilt. The talent in kickboxing has long peaked and wrestlers / grapplers don't seem to transition to MMA like they use to.

For the lighter divisions the sport has definitely evolved and I'd also say we are seeing more high level athletes that previously, we never saw guys with footwork or movement like Dillashaw, Cruz, Stephen Thompson, Holloway or FW Conor, everyone is definitely more well sound on the ground anytime strikers crossed over they were at best a developed white or low blue belt level. There was definitely some solid strikers like Yves, Pulver, BJ or Gomi but I don't think they had the same overall skillset as we see from the best strikers of today.
 
I can only partially agree.

Usman is far better than point fighter pillow fisted GSP. Matt Hughes was more exciting to watch than GSP. Lawler was more exciting to watch than GSP. Hendricks was more exciting to watch than GSP. All of these guys finish/finished fights and have/had the skill to do it. GSP could only win by doing his wave of take-downs with no ability to finish with a submission or GnP.

Jon Jones in his prime would destroy everyone mentioned on LHW.

I fully agree with you on HW. Modern HW is a sh** division. Nobody has a great ground game and is able to submit opponents like the earlier days. They are all one trick ponies.
 
cheesus said:
Heavyweight has definitely gone backwards, we've had maybe handful of guys with promising elite skillsets or specialists that have transitioned to MMA in the last 10 years such as Cain, Brock, Stipe, Blaydes, DC, Rosholt (bust), Konrad (retired early)....we don't see many high level grapplers / kickboxing crossovers transition like we use to. Pride / Mid Era UFC had Sergei, Werdum, Hunt, Cro Cop, Nog, Fedor, Coleman, Randleman, Barnett, Mir, Monson, Schilt. The talent in kickboxing has long peaked and wrestlers / grapplers don't seem to transition to MMA like they use to.

For the lighter divisions the sport has definitely evolved and I'd also say we are seeing more high level athletes that previously, we never saw guys with footwork or movement like Dillashaw, Cruz, Stephen Thompson, Holloway or FW Conor, everyone is definitely more well sound on the ground anytime strikers crossed over they were at best a developed white or low blue belt level. There was definitely some solid strikers like Yves, Pulver, BJ or Gomi but I don't think they had the same overall skillset as we see from the best strikers of today.
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I may get crap for this, but I think athletic, tall people choose more lucrative sports to participate in. MMA has weight classes which allows for a more variety of bodies.

* as in if a kid comes from a family of tall people or muscular and tall, you can maybe choose hockey or basketball or football, soccer…
 
Coconutwater said:
I may get crap for this, but I think athletic, tall people choose more lucrative sports to participate in. MMA has weight classes which allows for a more variety of bodies.

* as in if a kid comes from a family of tall people or muscular and tall, you can maybe choose hockey or basketball or football, soccer…
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Nah that's definitely the case, we use to see some athletic monsters with high fundamentals in one facet or another, today we have Ngannou who's potentially the biggest specimen in the history of MMA but aside from that, there aren't as many athletic freaks with combat pedigrees like Coleman, Randleman, Brock, Yoel, Schilt, Hunt, Kerr etc.
 
I feel some of y’all need to go back and rewatch some of the fights from 2012 and before. They are pretty damn sloppy compared to now. The fighters were more one dimensional and skills generally far more rudimentary. Sure there is top level guys such as Silva and gsp that would still be at the top of the division. But, those guys are goat level talent so kind of a silly point
 
Shaddows said:
Exactly!
Also brawlers.
They were also not well rounded fighters, since most came from a different Martial art (Strikers, Wrestlers or ground fighters only), with no idea about the other facets of MMA.

Heck, in the old days, you had different teachers, each one teaching a different facet of MMA.
Now most fighters grow up learning all of them together. They know what complement each other, what is not worth teaching for MMA.
Click to expand...
See Tai Tuaivasa
 
cheesus said:
Heavyweight has definitely gone backwards, we've had maybe handful of guys with promising elite skillsets or specialists that have transitioned to MMA in the last 10 years such as Cain, Brock, Stipe, Blaydes, DC, Rosholt (bust), Konrad (retired early)....we don't see many high level grapplers / kickboxing crossovers transition like we use to. Pride / Mid Era UFC had Sergei, Werdum, Hunt, Cro Cop, Nog, Fedor, Coleman, Randleman, Barnett, Mir, Monson, Schilt. The talent in kickboxing has long peaked and wrestlers / grapplers don't seem to transition to MMA like they use to.

For the lighter divisions the sport has definitely evolved and I'd also say we are seeing more high level athletes that previously, we never saw guys with footwork or movement like Dillashaw, Cruz, Stephen Thompson, Holloway or FW Conor, everyone is definitely more well sound on the ground anytime strikers crossed over they were at best a developed white or low blue belt level. There was definitely some solid strikers like Yves, Pulver, BJ or Gomi but I don't think they had the same overall skillset as we see from the best strikers of today.
Click to expand...
Tai Tuivasa is a couple of wins away from a title shot.
 
Goat St Pierre said:
Only some divisions have evolved. Welterweight has not. But others have and Anderson wouldn't be able to compete in today's Middleweight division
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Prime Anderson pre Chael Sonnen wrecks the entire MW division.
 
I think one place we see improvement in MMA is how much more well rounded and polished a lot of the mid tier fighters are compared to their counterparts 15 years ago.
 
I've said it before, it's going to take at least 100 years before we see true game changing athletes in MMA. It took well over 100 years and hundreds of millions of players worldwide for soccer to unearth Messi and Ronaldo. MMA is too young and not enough participants to expect progress anytime soon.
 
Seismic said:
I've said it before, it's going to take at least 100 years before we see true game changing athletes in MMA. It took well over 100 years and hundreds of millions of players worldwide for soccer to unearth Messi and Ronaldo. MMA is too young and not enough participants to expect progress anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Prime Tank Abbott KO’s Tai Tuavasa.
 
Goat St Pierre said:
Only some divisions have evolved. Welterweight has not. But others have and Anderson wouldn't be able to compete in today's Middleweight division
Click to expand...

Give me a fuckin BREAK. I don't even like Andy much but this is just ridiculous.
 
LilNicky95 said:
Not at all, I think Usman would beat GSP….too strong, too big…but GSP had a more variety of skills.
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This... gsp is more skilled. But would probably be kod. imo.

Their wrestling are about even stand up slight edge to gsp skill wise. But not power wise.. But georges bjj is light years ahead of usman.
But in a fight where wrestling cancels each other out. Ima take the guy with the more power and better chin.
 
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