Social Has integration in Canada worked? Or is everyone just pretending?

Yehudim said:
I don’t know about how Canada works but I do know that they have crazy immigration rates, it would be unreasonable to expect people from totally different cultures & languages to not be like that.

You’d really have to wait and see how the 2nd generation mixes and matches
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lol...

What's even more hilarious is that its almost impossible to immigrate there on your own from the US.
 
I Am Legion said:
I agree with this, it really depends on the groups migrating, and where they migrate too. It always amazes me how in Europe, you have all these muslim cultures moving to non muslim countries. Why don't the Muslim countries take them in? You would avoid things that France and Sweden are dealing with. Or Africans migrating to Germany...is that really an easy mesh? In small numbers anything can work, but massive migration is different.
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Fyi if you think I'm overboard or irrational it'll start at the border crisis. Ask yourself why someone with his credentials sees it the same way as what I'm saying.

 
College was like that too. The brochure's show everyone hanging out together but in actual fact it was more racially segregated than the rest of society.

Integration happens when minorities feel like the minority. So they strive to integrate. If they don't feel like they have to, they actually segregate themselves harder.

See: Brampton, Ontario.
 
rearnakedchoke said:
Hey. I may be biased. But Toronto still ranks highly as one of the best cities in the world to live.

Safe. Clean. Traffic sucks. Public transport could be better. But all in all, great place to raise a family.
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Raising a family is why I left toronto. Loved it for the first 30 years, once my daughter was born, forget it.

Also, go to Kipling and Dixon and tell me what sort of integration you see.
 
irish_thug said:
Raising a family is why I left toronto. Loved it for the first 30 years, once my daughter was born, forget it.

Also, go to Kipling and Dixon and tell me what sort of integration you see.
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I’m sure you made the right decision for you. I’m not in that area, I’m aware of it. But should the entire city be labeled as not a place to raise a family?
 
SugarKrok said:
At my place of work, I can’t help but notice similar ethnicities hanging out together at lunch. They speak whatever their native language is together. This applies to over half a dozen groups. It’s almost to the point an outside observer would think mandatory segregation is in place.

So…my question is do you think the mixing of ethnicities has really work? Are people actually as open to hanging out and getting to know people different from themselves than they were 30 years ago?

I don’t think they are. I think integration has failed. This isn’t to say people refuse to try, or won’t try because they’re racist. It’s just a question of comfort and almost lack of imagination.
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What would successful integration look like to you? If people are trying then why isn't that part of evaluating success?

If they made tv shows or movies with really diverse casts, would that count as success?

On a personal level, have you tried to enter any of these groups hanging out and been rebuffed?

I think integration has mostly succeeded. But I don't think successful integration is that every table is the rainbow of diversity either. Integration was never about the personal relationships that people had. Integration was about ensuring that there was space for everyone in the room. Not that they had to enter the room.

To get slightly historical, we can use schools. Pre-integration, black and white kids couldn't go to the same school. Post-integration, black and white kids can go to the same school if they want. There are parents who prefer more racially homogeneous schools because they think it's better for their kids. Those are individual decisions. But if a black kid wants to go to a predominantly white school and he's in the school district he can go. And if the white kid wants to go to a predominantly black school and he's in the school district, he can go. That's integration and that's successful.

But I think it's important to separate out the individual preferences of people from the large social concept in practice.

Last tidbit: In the US, almost 15% of newborns are mixed ethnicity, 3x the rate in 1980. Some would call that an indication of successful integration. So, it's largely a matter of what you think success should look like.
 
rearnakedchoke said:
I’m sure you made the right decision for you. I’m not in that area, I’m aware of it. But should the entire city be labeled as not a place to raise a family?
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I'm not sure how long you have lived in Toronto, but it is on a steady decline and is unnafordable to live in u less you got in a l9ng time ago.

Even a downtown hotel for a Tuesday night in late November was over $400 for 1 night with a corporate discount. Even visiting Toronto is unnafordable.

I'm sure you'll spin this to be a "win" for the city somehow. "It is so impressive to have such an expensive city. I live there!"

Fuck Toronto
 
rikibobby said:
I'm not sure how long you have lived in Toronto, but it is on a steady decline and is unnafordable to live in u less you got in a l9ng time ago.

Even a downtown hotel for a Tuesday night in late November was over $400 for 1 night with a corporate discount. Even visiting Toronto is unnafordable.

I'm sure you'll spin this to be a "win" for the city somehow. "It is so impressive to have such an expensive city. I live there!"

Fuck Toronto
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Bought my house in 2003. Rented in the city 4-5 years prior. Raised jn east suburbs
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
College was like that too. The brochure's show everyone hanging out together but in actual fact it was more racially segregated than the rest of society.

Integration happens when minorities feel like the minority. So they strive to integrate. If they don't feel like they have to, they actually segregate themselves harder.

See: Brampton, Ontario.
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Yep, I saw this in Cegep (college for Americans) except more extreme. They had unofficial sections/ cafeteria for each group. It’s like people are stuck in that mentality. I just dont get it…I guess that’s because I was a minority forced to hang out with people not like me growing up because none like me were around. I judge people solely on personality/etc…not because we speak a similar language. That’s what real Canadian is suppose to be… with all this integration, and it ain’t even close. It’s a joke.
 
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gatchaman said:
There has been a political push in Canada for a cultural mosaic for perhaps over a hundred years, and the scenarios you describe would be considered a success of cultural mosaic (Immigrants preserve their culture in their new country, Canada).

You see a failure of integration because the integration is not of the melting pot (People migrate to a new place and relinquish the culture of their old home in favor of the culture of their new home) style.

en.wikipedia.org

Cultural mosaic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Melting pot usually implies people blend in to the point they no longer have a culture of their own. That’s America for the most part, I think. What I am saying is there is a lack/ attempt by people to even communicate with members outside their ethnicity (much less be friend or date) to the point you’d think there is some kind of social mandate in place that makes it illegal.
 
Lol at expecting newly immigrated people to immediately blend seamlessly into society.

Wait a generation or two. If you're an immigrant that didn't go to school in your new country then it's nearly impossible to live without people you know and trust that share your familiar culture.
 
SugarKrok said:
Yep, I saw this in Cegep (college for Americans) except more extreme. They had unofficial sections/ cafeteria for each group. It’s like people are stuck in that mentality. I just dont get it…I guess that’s because I was a minority forced to hang out with people not like me growing up because none like me were around. I judge people solely on personality/etc…not because we speak a similar language. That’s what real Canadian is suppose to be… with all this integration, and it ain’t even close. It’s a joke.
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My college didn't have many black kids, so the black kids integrated with the white kids. But we had thousands of asians and indians and they didn't integrate at all because they didn't feel like they had to.

Immigration isn't the issue. It's the scale it's happening at.
 
Sweater of AV said:
Lol at expecting newly immigrated people to immediately blend seamlessly into society.

Wait a generation or two. If you're an immigrant that didn't go to school in your new country then it's nearly impossible to live without people you know and trust that share your familiar culture.
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I'm an immigrant and I assimilated seamlessly.
 
panamaican said:
What would successful integration look like to you? If people are trying then why isn't that part of evaluating success?

If they made tv shows or movies with really diverse casts, would that count as success?

On a personal level, have you tried to enter any of these groups hanging out and been rebuffed?

I think integration has mostly succeeded. But I don't think successful integration is that every table is the rainbow of diversity either. Integration was never about the personal relationships that people had. Integration was about ensuring that there was space for everyone in the room. Not that they had to enter the room.

To get slightly historical, we can use schools. Pre-integration, black and white kids couldn't go to the same school. Post-integration, black and white kids can go to the same school if they want. There are parents who prefer more racially homogeneous schools because they think it's better for their kids. Those are individual decisions. But if a black kid wants to go to a predominantly white school and he's in the school district he can go. And if the white kid wants to go to a predominantly black school and he's in the school district, he can go. That's integration and that's successful.

But I think it's important to separate out the individual preferences of people from the large social concept in practice.

Last tidbit: In the US, almost 15% of newborns are mixed ethnicity, 3x the rate in 1980. Some would call that an indication of successful integration. So, it's largely a matter of what you think success should look like.
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Successful integration looks like people adopting the language and customs of the country they moved to.

Kind of amazing that had to be explained to you.
 
Sweater of AV said:
Yeah, I'm sure you have...you're living in a bunker in the middle of nowhere because you're scared of immigrants. Lol.

Also, apparently you and reading haven't assimilated seamlessly.



<BC1>
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I live in a big beautiful house in a beautiful small town.
 
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