International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

lol... Then stop making it seem like it's some one way street.

And Palestinians hate everyone. Even each other.

When did I say it was a one way street. I simply posted a video of Israeli children singing a genocidal song on Israeli TV.
 
Despite numerous evidence of Hamas terrorists working for UNRWA, there is a bunch of jackasses in this thread who continue to bitch and moan about their aid being cut off.


 
Despite numerous evidence of Hamas terrorists working for UNRWA, there is a bunch of jackasses in this thread who continue to bitch and moan about their aid being cut off.





Let their billionaire "leaders" who're sitting pretty in the lap of luxury in Dubai fund them. They won't get another dime from me.
 
People angrily message each other in private conversations? lmao

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Wish this stupid war would end. But I'm sure that even if Hamas did surrender and return the hostages that Israel would go for total annihilation. They want the whole country because their government is controlled by absolute psychos.
 
Wish this stupid war would end. But I'm sure that even if Hamas did surrender and return the hostages that Israel would go for total annihilation. They want the whole country because their government is controlled by absolute psychos.
Lol at hamas and their leadership unconditionally surrendering and turning themselves in to aid their people. Them surrendering in detail is actually 100x less likely than Israel suddenly deciding to become pacifists.

The best road here was for Palestinians to rise up and lynch the terrorist hamas organization right after 10/7 and hand them over to Israel.
 
No, they weren't in power. The Fatah did not release power after the election. When I provided that quote it was before Hamas was ruling Gaza. The person I quoted said that he wanted them in power for that exact purpose. Again, you are only proving me right.
again, if you actually read the full wikileaks that you referenced, and not just the talking points found on anti-israel sources, you'd acknowledge hamas was already voted into power, was already the de-facto ruling party, and fatah was on the brink of being eliminated from gaza (their takeover was literally happening DURING the discussion with yadlin, who noted of course: "Yadlin dismissed Fatah's capabilities in Gaza, saying Hamas could have taken over there any time it wanted for the past year" and "Yadlin suggested that the Asad regime would probably not survive a war, but added that Israel was no longer concerned with maintaining that "evil" regime." - saying this as they were taking over gaza.

here's a link for ya! - https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/07TELAVIV1733_a.html
and of course, again, there's a reason you took the line: "Although not necessarily reflecting a GOI consensus view, Yadlin said Israel would be "happy" if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state. " and presented it as a consensus view (again after acknowledging the reality that hamas was going to rule gaza).

and completely ignored: "Yadlin's relatively relaxed attitude toward the deteriorating security situation in Gaza represents a shift in IDF thinking from last fall, when the Southern Command supported a major ground operation into Gaza to remove the growing threat from Hamas."

why would you ignore this? would a government that wants hamas in power have contemplated a major ground operation to remove them? why is the ONLY quote of interest to you in that entire piece the one quote? i'm pretty confident you found that quote NOT from the wikileaks, but from an anti-israel source feeding you that line.

Would it trouble you to at least back up your claims by providing contrary information? Something you NEVER do. Lazy fuck. Are you referencing the "We investigated ourselves and found us of no wrongdoing without actually talking to the accusers" bullshit? Who knows, you never back anything up with links. Now's your opportunity....
you're lying again about me providing links.

but just to help you out, i'll repost the links i've already posted regarding ethiopian jews.

but it's first important to acknowledge YOU were quick to provide a link to a 2013 article about israel's treatment of ethiopian jews. with the express intent to vilify israel with the headline in big bold letters, in response to "europe never liked the blacks or the jews. I wonder how they feel about black jews.."

why did you have this "Israel Forcibly Injected African Immigrants with Birth Control, Report Claims" at your fingertips? your anti-israel sources armed you for battle?

anyway, dismiss away:


again, your article was from 2013 (and again, for some reason, you had that article at the ready)............
In 2016, Israel’s State Controller conducted an investigation into the matter. The investigation concluded that the women had not been coerced into taking the injections. But doubts remained. Critics of the investigation pointed out that the State Controller had not heard testimony from the alleged victims, and that questions remained about the role of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, the organization that had cared for these women in the Ethiopian transit camps.

Years after this incident we know that no Israeli government agency or private clinic sterilized patients against their will. For the Ethiopian women who received temporary birth control injections in Israeli clinics, it is hard to judge whether there was an element of coercion. The women who received the injections were uneducated and did not speak Hebrew—-so it is not surprising that miscommunication occurred in some cases. In the transit camps some women may have felt obliged to please their caregivers in order to smooth their journey through the immigration process. Once in Israel, medical personnel may have administered the shots based on the medical records from the transit camp.


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The claim that Israel was deliberately trying to reduce its Ethiopian population also conflicts with the fact, noted above, that the humanitarian organizations in question—and the Israeli government itself—worked actively for decades to bring large numbers of Ethiopian Jews to Israel.
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but you went out of your way to try to suggest israel was racist against black jews (quote: "I wonder how Israel feels about Black Jews...." followed by your 2013 link).


Again, the issue isn't removing Hamas from power, it's Israel using Hamas as a guise to ethnically cleanse and commit genocide on Gazans.
maybe the issue actually is removing hamas from power. due to their commitment to eradicating israel? maybe that's a motivation? as well as the fact that gaza will never prosper with hamas in power.
 
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again, if you actually read the full wikileaks that you referenced, and not just the talking points found on anti-israel sources, you'd acknowledge hamas was already voted into power, was already the de-facto ruling party, and fatah was on the brink of being eliminated from gaza (their takeover was literally happening DURING the discussion with yadlin, who noted of course: "Yadlin dismissed Fatah's capabilities in Gaza, saying Hamas could have taken over there any time it wanted for the past year" and "Yadlin suggested that the Asad regime would probably not survive a war, but added that Israel was no longer concerned with maintaining that "evil" regime." - saying this as they were taking over gaza.

here's a link for ya! - https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/07TELAVIV1733_a.html
and of course, again, there's a reason you took the line: "Although not necessarily reflecting a GOI consensus view, Yadlin said Israel would be "happy" if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state. " and presented it as a consensus view (again after acknowledging the reality that hamas was going to rule gaza).

and completely ignored: "Yadlin's relatively relaxed attitude toward the deteriorating security situation in Gaza represents a shift in IDF thinking from last fall, when the Southern Command supported a major ground operation into Gaza to remove the growing threat from Hamas."

why would you ignore this? would a government that wants hamas in power have contemplated a major ground operation to remove them? why is the ONLY quote of interest to you in that entire piece the one quote? i'm pretty confident you found that quote NOT from the wikileaks, but from an anti-israel source feeding you that line.
Again, you aren't proving anything I've said wrong. "The Fatah was on the brink of being eliminated from Gaza" ...meaning there was a struggle with the transition of power and it wasn't handed to Hamas immediately when Yadlin made that comment. EXACTLY what I said. That doesn't matter anyways, because I never made the claim that Israel had got Hamas elected, so this "gotcha" point of that comment not being before the election is moot, as I've already explained like 10 times already.

The fact that it wasn't a consensus is irrelevant, and again ANOTHER strawman. I never said anything about there being a consensus, I said a top ranking official with actual power, in this case the IDF Military Intelligence Directorate, held that view. He wasn't the only one however indicated by subsequent events. You aren't proving me wrong again.

"Yadlin said Israel would be "happy" if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state." is the most relevant takeaway. None of what you've wrote negates this comment. The fact that you say they wanted to do a ground invasion IS dealing with Gaza as a hostile state, EXACTLY the point.

you're lying again about me providing links.

but just to help you out, i'll repost the links i've already posted regarding ethiopian jews.

but it's first important to acknowledge YOU were quick to provide a link to a 2013 article about israel's treatment of ethiopian jews. with the express intent to vilify israel with the headline in big bold letters, in response to "europe never liked the blacks or the jews. I wonder how they feel about black jews.."
Headlines are literally always posted in big bold letters, that's what a headline is moron. Trying to act like me presenting headlines how they are presented is some anit-semetic racist tactic may be the dumbest thing you've done to date.
why did you have this "Israel Forcibly Injected African Immigrants with Birth Control, Report Claims" at your fingertips? your anti-israel sources armed you for battle?
Because Google made it available right at my fingertips with a quick search. Blame them.
anyway, dismiss away:


again, your article was from 2013 (and again, for some reason, you had that article at the ready)............
Complains about me using a bias anti-israel source (The Gaurdian) and then goes on to post "Times of Israel" as an impartial source. Great job. Again, google had that article ready to go you bozo.
In 2016, Israel’s State Controller conducted an investigation into the matter. The investigation concluded that the women had not been coerced into taking the injections. But doubts remained. Critics of the investigation pointed out that the State Controller had not heard testimony from the alleged victims, and that questions remained about the role of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, the organization that had cared for these women in the Ethiopian transit camps.

Years after this incident we know that no Israeli government agency or private clinic sterilized patients against their will. For the Ethiopian women who received temporary birth control injections in Israeli clinics, it is hard to judge whether there was an element of coercion. The women who received the injections were uneducated and did not speak Hebrew—-so it is not surprising that miscommunication occurred in some cases. In the transit camps some women may have felt obliged to please their caregivers in order to smooth their journey through the immigration process. Once in Israel, medical personnel may have administered the shots based on the medical records from the transit camp.


*************************
The claim that Israel was deliberately trying to reduce its Ethiopian population also conflicts with the fact, noted above, that the humanitarian organizations in question—and the Israeli government itself—worked actively for decades to bring large numbers of Ethiopian Jews to Israel.
*************************
but you went out of your way to try to suggest israel was racist against black jews (quote: "I wonder how Israel feels about Black Jews...." followed by your 2013 link).
"We investigated ourselves and found ourselves not guilty" where have we been seeing this lately? Even your own quote states: "But doubts remained. Critics of the investigation pointed out that the State Controller had not heard testimony from the alleged victims."

This is your best attempt at debunking?
maybe the issue actually is removing hamas from power. due to their commitment to eradicating israel? maybe that's a motivation? as well as the fact that gaza will never prosper with hamas in power.
Israel isn't only committed to eradicating Palestine, they are actively doing it right before your big dumb eyes. Palestine will never prosper with Israel's boot on their neck.
 
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Lol at all the people who believed the 35k dead women and children. You gullible fools.
35K dead women and children was literally NEVER the narrative. That's been the overall number of deaths, which hasn't changed at all.

The numbers were only revised to reflect "verifiable" victims, meaning ones that could have a name put to them. Try identifying crushed and dismembered corpses.

Lol at "we've only killed 4,959 women, 7,797 children, and 1,924 elderly"
 
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I guess Human Rights Watch, along with other Nazi-ISIS organizations like UNICEF and Doctors Without Borders, are all part of a vast antisemitic conspiracy.

funny you should ask:

Criticism regarding the Arab–Israeli conflict​

Allegations of anti-Israel bias
HRW has been accused of bias against Israel and having an anti-Israeli agenda.

Robert Bernstein wrote that by focusing on Israel and neglecting human rights violations by less free states in the Middle East that HRW had cast "aside its important distinction between open and closed societies." In response, Aryeh Neier HRW co-founder and former executive director said, it "is wrong to suggest that open societies should be spared criticism for human rights abuses". Neier also said that Robert Bernstein's distinction between "wrongs committed in self-defense and those committed intentionally" is not made by the laws of war and is dangerous. "On such grounds, groups such as al-Qaeda in Iraq" (which "murdered tens of thousands of civilians after" the 2003 American invasion) could justify their crimes.

Writing in the Wall Street Journal in 2009 about a controversial fundraising event that HRW held in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Noah Pollak stated that the organization displayed a strong bias against Israel. Pollak observed that from 2006 to 2009 Human Rights Watch's reports on the Israeli-Arab conflict had been almost entirely devoted to condemning Israel (87 criticisms of Israeli conduct against the Palestinians and Hezbollah, versus eight criticisms of Palestinian groups and four of Hezbollah for attacks on Israel).

For a Jerusalem Post article, Natan Sharansky said: "Here is an organization created by the goodwill of the free world to fight violations of human rights, which has become a tool in the hands of dictatorial regimes to fight against democracies ... It is time to call a spade a spade. The real activity of this organization today is a far cry from what it was set up 30 years ago to do: throw light in dark places where there is really no other way to find out what is happening regarding human rights." HRW executive director Kenneth Roth responded that "Israel accounts for about 15 percent of our published output on the region" and "our war coverage in the region has documented violations by all sides". According to Roth, "By failing to hold those responsible to account, Israel increases anger and resentment among the Palestinian population and in the wider Arab world and undercuts moderates who wish to pursue peace."[46] Time Mideast correspondent Scott MacLeod wrote in the Los Angeles Times that Israeli policy cannot be shielded from a group like Human Rights Watch.

In a November 2012 The Wall Street Journal article, David Feith said that there has been "bitter debate" within HRW about whether Iran's alleged call for annihilation of Israel is a violation of human rights. HRW vice-chair Sid Sheinberg wrote in an internal email that doing nothing while Ahmadinejad wants to "kill Jews and annihilate Israel ... is a position unworthy of our great organization." According to Kenneth Roth, "Tehran isn't inciting genocide and claims to the contrary are part of an effort to beat the war drums against Iran."

In an analysis published by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Ron Kampeas criticized HRW reports: "Reconstructions of the horrific death of civilians replete with painstakingly gathered evidence are coupled with bewildering omissions of context and blended into a package that assumes an inherent Israeli immorality" and denounced "efforts to turn criticism of individual officers and soldiers into a wholesale indictment of Israel's military establishment and the decision to resort to military force." According to Kampeas, HRW reports on the 2009 fighting in Gaza "fail to assess evidence — including videos of Israeli forces holding their fire because of the presence of civilians — that Israel has provided to show that such incidents were the exception to the rule; they fail to examine what measures Israel has taken to prevent civilian deaths, which would be pertinent in examining any claim of war crimes."

In October 2009, Robert Bernstein criticized the organization's policy in the Middle East in a New York Times op-ed. According to Bernstein, "With increasing frequency, [HRW] casts aside its important distinction between open and closed societies ... The region is populated by authoritarian regimes with appalling human rights records. Yet in recent years Human Rights Watch has written far more condemnations of Israel for violations of international law than of any other country in the region." HRW London branch director Tom Porteus replied that the organization rejected Bernstein's "obvious double standard. Any credible human rights organization must apply the same human rights standards to all countries." Jane Olson and Jonathan Fanton wrote in a letter to The New York Times, "We were saddened to see Robert L. Bernstein argue that Israel should be judged by a different human rights standard than the rest of the world ... As long as open societies commit human rights abuses, Human Rights Watch has a vital role to play in documenting those violations and advocating to bring them to an end." According to the organization, in April 2009 Bernstein brought his concerns to the HRW board of directors; the board unanimously rejected his view that Human Rights Watch should report only on closed societies, expressing its full support for the organization's work.

The New Republic published a lengthy article about HRW in April 2010, criticizing the organization for "giving disproportionate attention to Israeli misdeeds." "Robert James—a businessman, World War II veteran, and member of the MENA [Middle East and North Africa Desk of HRW] advisory committee who has been involved with HRW almost since its inception—calls the group 'the greatest NGO since the Red Cross'," but argues that it is chronically incapable of introspection. 'Bob [Bernstein, founder and former chair of HRW] is bringing this issue up on Israel', he says. 'But Human Rights Watch has a more basic problem ... They cannot take criticism'." According to the magazine (referring to Bernstein's The New York Times op-ed), "Yet, as difficult as it was to go public, Bernstein does not believe that Human Rights Watch left him with much choice. 'They think they've heard me out,' he says. 'You see, they think they've listened to me until they can't listen anymore. Actually, they haven't listened at all'." In November 2010 Bernstein delivered the Shirley and Leonard Goldstein Lecture on Human Rights at the University of Nebraska at Omaha, accusing HRW of "fault[ing] Israel as the principal offender" in the Israel-Palestine conflict and suggesting that human-rights groups were responsible for polarizing university campuses.

In her The Washington Post blog, Jennifer Rubin described HRW as "an anti-Israel group masquerading as one devoted to human rights". Orlando Radice said about his interview with Kenneth Roth for The Jewish Chronicle, "This was less of an interview than an exercise in denial, obfuscation and plain old censorship."

In an email on her last day at HRW, Danielle Haas, a departing senior editor, accused the organization of politicizing its work on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. She expressed concern about HRW's responses to the Hamas massacres in Israel on October 7, stating that "years of institutional creep culminated in organizational responses that shattered professionalism, abandoned principles of accuracy and fairness, and surrendered its duty to stand for the human rights of all."

Garlasco incident​

Senior HRW investigator Marc Garlasco has been criticized for collecting Nazi memorabilia, and Emma Daly confirmed without elaboration in March 2010 that Garlasco had resigned from Human Rights Watch the previous month. Garlasco, who wrote a book about Nazi-era medals, posted on a collector website: "That is so cool! The leather SS jacket makes my blood go cold it is so COOL!" Ron Dermer, then Benjamin Netanyahu's policy director, said about Garlasco: "A war crimes investigator who is an avid collector and trader in Nazi memorabilia is perhaps a new low." HRW issued a rebuttal, saying that the "accusation is demonstrably false and fits into a campaign to deflect attention from Human Rights Watch's rigorous and detailed reporting on violations of international human rights and humanitarian law by the Israeli government" and Garlasco "has never held or expressed Nazi or anti-Semitic views." Helena Cobban (a fellow analyst on the Human Rights Watch Middle East advisory board) said that Garlasco engaged with "people who clearly do seem to be Nazi sympathizers," which she called "extremely disturbing".

According to the organization Garlasco "covered Iraq as a senior intelligence analyst at the Pentagon", and The Guardian reported that he served in this role for seven years. He was chief of high-value targeting during the Iraq war in 2003, on the Operation Desert Fox (Iraq) Battle Damage Assessment team in 1998 and led a Pentagon Battle Damage Assessment team to Kosovo in 1999. Garlasco also participated in over 50 interrogations as a subject-matter expert.

In a piece for The National, Alan Philps wrote that "the Netanyahu government and its supporters have set out to destroy the credibility of the UN Human Rights Council and all non-governmental organisations (NGOs) working in the human rights field ... The aim is clearly to de-legitimize the organization at a time when its rights-based analysis coincides with some of the views of the US president Barack Obama."

According to Christian Science Monitor staff writer Robert Marquand, a U.N. report by "jurist Richard Goldstone, head of South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, chief prosecutor for the Yugoslav war-crimes tribunal" showed illegal white-phosphorus use consistent with Garlasco's eyewitness testimony provided to the Monitor. Marquand wrote that it was "not okay ... to use Garlasco to distract from or obfuscate findings that war crimes and crimes against humanity may have taken place in Gaza".

Shawan Jabarin appointment​

In February 2011, HRW appointed Shawan Jabarin to their Mideast Advisory Board. Jabarin has been called "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" by the Israeli Supreme Court for his roles in the militant Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the human-rights organization Al Haq. HRW's decision to include Jabarin on its Mideast Board evoked criticism.[77]
 
LOL @ the "THEY'RE BIAS!" defense against peoples who's workers have been getting intentionally slaughtered by Israel...
 
Again, you aren't proving anything I've said wrong. "The Fatah was on the brink of being eliminated from Gaza" ...meaning there was a struggle with the transition of power and it wasn't handed to Hamas immediately when Yadlin made that comment. EXACTLY what I said. That doesn't matter anyways, because I never made the claim that Israel had got Hamas elected, so this "gotcha" point of that comment not being before the election is moot, as I've already explained like 10 times already.

The fact that it wasn't a consensus is irrelevant, and again ANOTHER strawman. I never said anything about there being a consensus, I said a top ranking official with actual power, in this case the IDF Military Intelligence Directorate, held that view. He wasn't the only one however indicated by subsequent events. You aren't proving me wrong again.

"Yadlin said Israel would be "happy" if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state." is the most relevant takeaway. None of what you've wrote negates this comment. The fact that you say they wanted to do a ground invasion IS dealing with Gaza as a hostile state, EXACTLY the point.
dude - you have been arguing that israel WANTED hamas ruling gaza. yet you didn't think it was relevant that before it became clear hamas was going to rule gaza they supported a major ground operation into Gaza to remove the growing threat from Hamas

so, no, not exactly the point. it actually contradicts your point, clearly. before hamas took full control of gaza israel contemplated REMOVING them via force. but also they concluded they had GREATER threats elsewhere. which you of course ignored.
Headlines are literally always posted in big bold letters, that's what a headline is moron. Trying to act like me presenting headlines how they are presented is some anit-semetic racist tactic may be the dumbest thing you've done to date.

Because Google made it available right at my fingertips with a quick search. Blame them.
so when you saw someone post "europe never liked the blacks or the jews. I wonder how they feel about black jews.." you took to google to research how ISRAEL treats black jews??? yeah, i think i rest my case.
Complains about me using a bias anti-israel source (The Gaurdian) and then goes on to post "Times of Israel" as an impartial source. Great job. Again, google had that article ready to go you bozo.
i didn't complain about your source at all. i noted your source was DATED and was subsequently debunked. you completely dismiss and ignored the information that contradicts the "israel is racist" narrative you sought out and presented as truth.

And I gave you 2 links, not 1.
"We investigated ourselves and found ourselves not guilty" where have we been seeing this lately? Even your own quote states: "But doubts remained. Critics of the investigation pointed out that the State Controller had not heard testimony from the alleged victims."

This is your best attempt at debunking?
again, not surprising you're simply dismissing information that goes against the narrative you SOUGHT OUT and posted. zero reflection at all and complete dismissal. again, i have to wonder why.........
Israel isn't only committed to eradicating Palestine, they are actively doing it right before your big dumb eyes. Palestine will never prosper with Israel's boot on their neck.
they should just give hamas full autonomy to run gaza as they see fit! what could go wrong?
 
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