International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Hog-train]

Yeah but some of them will always remain under Israeli jurisdiction and rule in the unlikely event of a two state solution. Likely the ones being advertised as a part of this sale being included.

My point is mostly that this isn't terribly shocking or heinous.

If it was explicitly for illegal outposts, I would share your disgust.

They keep expanding the settlements illegally and then it later gets codified by Israel as "legal." They're stealing.

I don't give a shit what Israel deems as legal or illegal settlements. They're all illegal.

 

[Samjj]

They keep expanding the settlements illegally and then it later gets codified by Israel as "legal." They're stealing.

I don't give a shit what Israel deems as legal or illegal settlements. They're all illegal.

The violation of international law in this case is a moral qualification and nothing else. No international consensus will change the facts on the ground.

These properties will likely remain forever as a part of Israel, even if a peaceful resolution is reached... but if you want to disgusted by this specifically, you do you I guess.

 

[Hog-train]

The violation of international law in this case is a moral qualification and nothing else. No international consensus will change the facts on the ground.

These properties will likely remain forever as a part of Israel, even if a peaceful resolution is reached... but if you want to disgusted by this specifically, you do you I guess.

You give lip service to saying you're against the illegal settlement activity. But when I show a video that criticizes the settlements, you give pushback.

Your answer here is basically saying "Well Israel has the power to do it, so too bad. Nothing is changing."

 

[Hog-train]

 

[Samjj]

You give lip service to saying you're against the illegal settlement activity. But when I show a video that criticizes the settlements, you give pushback.

Your answer here is basically saying "Well Israel has the power to do it, so too bad. Nothing is changing."

Nah, there are settlements which will never be uprooted and are a fact on the ground. Crying about them is useless.

The actual issue of settement expansion extended into areas outside of Israeli control / or stipulated for non residential buildings which represent clearly illegal incursions onto Palestinian territory or territory that would otherwise be designated for a future state and are clear land grabs - this is an appropriate placement of outrage but that’s not what is being discussed here. Not all settlements are the same.

 

[Hog-train]

Nah, there are settlements which will never be uprooted and are a fact on the ground. Crying about them is useless.

The actual issue of settement expansion extended into areas outside of Israeli control / or stipulated for non residential buildings which represent clearly illegal incursions onto Palestinian territory or territory that would otherwise be designated for a future state and are clear land grabs - this is an appropriate placement of outrage but that’s not what is being discussed here. Not all settlements are the same.

"This state sanctioned land theft is ok, but this unregulated land theft is not."

Problem is - the unsanctioned land grabs retroactively becomes sanctioned leading to more and more stolen land.

 

[Samjj]

Problem is - the unsanctioned land grabs retroactively becomes sanctioned leading to more and more stolen land.

Indeed and that is the issue of the current goverent, Smotritch and Ben Gvir specifically being a part of the coalition with Goldknopf.

Those land grabs usually belong to more isolated and smaller settlements or non contiguous blocks. They also have the highest likelihood of being evacuated if a Palestinian state is to be formed - that is not true of the large settlement blocks which are practically small cities and towns and are here to stay.

 

[Hog-train]

Indeed and that is the issue of the current goverent, Smotritch and Ben Gvir specifically being a part of the coalition with Goldknopf.

Those land grabs usually belong to more isolated and smaller settlements or non contiguous blocks. They also have the highest likelihood of being evacuated if a Palestinian state is to be formed - that is not true of the large settlement blocks which are practically small cities and towns and are here to stay.

The larger settlement blocks keep growing and the Palestinian land keeps getting segmented into smaller and smaller blocks.

It's stealing. Stop trying to justify it with the minutiae.

 

[Samjj]

The larger settlement blocks keep growing and the Palestinian land keeps getting segmented into smaller and smaller blocks.

It's stealing. Stop trying to justify it with the minutiae.

What am I justifying?

It seens like you don’t understand where the actual controversial land grabs are occurring - which I am attempting to delineate for you.

 

[Hog-train]

What am I justifying?

It seens like you don’t understand where the actual controversial land grabs are occurring - which I am attempting to delineate for you.

You're trying to delineate between state sanctioned theft and unapproved theft. It's all theft.

And clearly illegal incursions onto Palestinian territory can be easily stopped by Israeli forces. But they don't. So that's basically defacto sanctioned too. If the PLA tried to remove them by force, I bet the IDF would defend them.

 

[Samjj]

You're trying to delineate between state sanctioned theft and unapproved theft. It's all theft.

Reread and get back to me.

 

[Hog-train]

Reread and get back to me.

I did read it. Why don't Israeli forces stop illegal incursions into Palestinian territory? Obvious answer is obvious.

 

[Samjj]

I did read it. Why don't Israeli forces stop illegal incursions into Palestinian territory? Obvious answer is obvious.

This seems like a non sequitur.

The current government contains ultra nationalist settlers. What does this have to do with differentiating between kinds of settlement expansion?

 

[Hog-train]

This seems like a non sequitur.

The current government contains ultra nationalist settlers. What does this have to do with differentiating between kinds of settlement expansion?

How is Israel containing the far right settlers?

Palestinian police are forbidden from reacting to acts of violence by Israeli settlers BTW.

 

[Samjj]

How is Israel containing the far right settlers?

Palestinian police are forbidden from reacting to acts of violence by Israeli settlers BTW.

this is a different conversation than the one we were having, but the current government is certainly doing little to protect Palestinians from settler violence - if not enabling it.

 

[Hog-train]

this is a different conversation than the one we were having, but the current government is certainly doing little to protect Palestinians from settler violence - if not enabling it.

You're differentiating between the "sanctioned" larger settlements and the fringe settlements. But not answering my question of how they're containing the far right settlers in the fringe settlements.

You just said the current government contains ultra right settlers. I'm asking how they're doing that.

The fact that Palestinian police cannot intervene is not a separate conversation. Obviously it's relevant.

 

[Samjj]

You're differentiating between the "sanctioned" larger settlements and the fringe settlements. But not answering my question of how they're containing the far right settlers in the fringe settlements.

You just said the current government contains ultra right settlers. I'm asking how they're doing that.

The fact that Palestinian police cannot intervene is not a separate conversation. Obviously it's relevant.

You claimed to have read my posts - it certainly seems otherwise.

You literally just quoted me responding to your question where I said unequivocally that the government is enabling settlers and violence against Palestinians. Where did I claim otherwise? More likely seems that you’re trying to strawman and deflect.

 

[Hog-train]

You claimed to have read my posts - it certainly seems otherwise.

You literally just quoted me responding to your question where I said unequivocally that the government is enabling settlers and violence against Palestinians. Where did I claim otherwise? More likely seems that you’re trying to strawman and deflect.

Strawman WTF? - I'm asking you a direct question based on what you said.

The current government contains ultra nationalist settlers. What does this have to do with differentiating between kinds of settlement expansion?

HOW is the current government trying to contain the ultra nationalist settlers? Are they taking any steps to stop them? What are they doing about them?

 

[Samjj]

Strawman WTF? - I'm asking you a direct question based on what you said.



HOW is the current government trying to contain the ultra nationalist settlers? Are they taking any steps to stop them? What are they doing about them?

Huh, reread dude - seriously.

I already answered that question in regard to settlement expansion and violence (twice), even in the very post that you quoted and the post before.

 

[Hog-train]

Huh, reread dude - seriously.

I already answered that question in regard to settlement expansion and violence (twice), even in the very post that you quoted and the post before.

You're gaslighting me. I do not see the answer to this in any of your replies.

This is a very simple question (which I honestly wanted an answer for.) Just answer the question please.

How is the current government trying to contain the ultra nationalist settlers?