International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Blayt7hh]

You pushed for a more exact moral comparison to current events, I gave you one in the Germans colonial genocide in Namibia which you now seem to be ignoring along with every other argument in that post whilst pushing a strawman that I support the Oct 7th attacks.

Seriously how many times does that dishonest nonsense need to be shot down before it loses credibility? its perfectly possible to decry Hamas's attacks AND also think that the Isrealis have exploited them to upkick their program of ethnic cleansing which our own governments are directly supporting.

Have I said anything about the Israelis "going back to Germany"? again another dishonest strawman argument, its perfectly possible to view current events as colonialism without believing that the Isreali population should be "sent back to europe". I mean we've have a UN ratified plan for a two state solution for decades which the Israelis and their western allies have clealy not committed to.

Its this fantasy I think your caught up in, the belief the Isrealis and their western allies have ever seriously been committed to a 2 state solution when I think evidence very clearly points to the reverse with the mass of illegal settlements in the west bank. Its a lie which has been well sold by much of our political/media class for decades but its becoming ever harder to maintain in the face of what were seeing now and I think outside of the genuine racial/cultural supremists only the ill informed or those too arrogant to admit they were hoodwicked still cling to it.

First I did not ask you for a better analogy. I don’t care about making an analogy. I don’t need it to in understand what is happening. All of done is point out the (speaking of dishonest) analogies you’re using to spin the situation and make the Israelis out to be worst. For instance, in your most recent one comparing them to a German colony, these Israeli settlers have lived here for generations now. Most of them have parents and even grandparents born there. They are not going back to Germany.

This gets to the heart of the real issue, which isn’t me being a racist. It is you and your ilk in here living in a fantasy and being unable to come to grips with the reality of the situation. Israelis going back to Europe is a fantasy. Israel giving back land from 1967 is a fantasy. Palestinians accepting these facts and being coming peaceful is without bloodshed is a fantasy. Israel being able to destroy hamas without massive collateral damage is a fantasy. Thinking that denouncing hamas matters at all is peak madness.

To that last point, I get that you “denounce” Hamas. I get that you think they’re bad people and you would give them a serious verbal lashing if you could get their attention. It doesn’t matter. They don’t care. They’ll do it all again if they get the chance. All your condemnations won’t give them any pause. So in reality what you preach is doing nothing about it, letting heinous war crimes go unpunished, and Israelis having to live with it and live under the threat of it happening again. Get as outraged as you want and call me all the names you want. This is the reality.

 

[SuperAlly]

Read more carefully.

I made no clai . I provided evidence.

Israel killed 2 kids with its pager attack.
Hezbollah killed 2 IGF fighters.

The only sensible conclusion is obvious.

But yes Israel is guilty of far ore terrorist attacks and war crimes than hamas and hezbollah combined.

This is a special kind of stupid that you can't teach

 

[moreorless87]

The irony of accusing someone that he thinks that heinous war crimes are fine and should go unpunished when you yourself think that about Israeli war crimes because "Hamas doesn't have uniform so they don't have a choice but to kill dozens of thousands of children, wether in the safe zones they tell them to go to or when they gather starving to have flour"

Again there's a big difference between "unpunished" and "exploited to accelerate a program of ethnic cleansing killing an order of magnitude more people and essentially levelling an urban area of 2 million people".

The reality is I do not and never have supported the Oct 7th attacks, seems like you support what the Israelis have done since.

 

[SuperAlly]

The difference is of course that nobody is pushing for us to provide strong military/economic/diplomatic support for Hamas to invade parts of Israel and carry out mass killings were as you seem to be doing exactly that for the Israelis to be carrying on ethnic cleansing on a vastly larger scale than the Hamas attacks.

The evidence the Israelis are hiding behind these attacks to carry out ethnic cleansing is overwhelming(including plenty of very public statements) yet you still cling to it. I'm guessing because you can't bare to admit you've bought into such bullshit? that your whole view around Israel is nonsense.

if you want a more exact example then the Germans genocide carried out in Namiba matches pretty well, local population was repressed by colonists, local population revolted and some Germans were killed which was used as an excuse to carry out genocide.

Incidentally I would say besides the immorality of those claiming this issue "isnt important" many would argue that the holocaust was made possible by colonialist genocide being tolerated/ignored and then being imported back to Europe, a big factor in how supposedly "civilised" europe was able to engage in genocide at home.

As soon as you start misusing terms like ethnic cleansing, war crimes, genocide etc people are under no obligation to read or reply to your make believe nonsense

 

[Koya]

First I did not ask you for a better analogy. I don’t care about making an analogy. I don’t need it to in understand what is happening. All of done is point out the (speaking of dishonest) analogies you’re using to spin the situation and make the Israelis out to be worst. For instance, in your most recent one comparing them to a German colony, these Israeli settlers have lived here for generations now. Most of them have parents and even grandparents born there. They are not going back to Germany.

This gets to the heart of the real issue, which isn’t me being a racist. It is you and your ilk in here living in a fantasy and being unable to come to grips with the reality of the situation. Israelis going back to Europe is a fantasy. Israel giving back land from 1967 is a fantasy. Palestinians accepting these facts and being coming peaceful is without bloodshed is a fantasy. Israel being able to destroy hamas without massive collateral damage is a fantasy. Thinking that denouncing hamas matters at all is peak madness.

To that last point, I get that you “denounce” Hamas. I get that you think they’re bad people and you would give them a serious verbal lashing if you could get their attention. It doesn’t matter. They don’t care. They’ll do it all again if they get the chance. All your condemnations won’t give them any pause. So in reality what you preach is doing nothing about it, letting heinous war crimes go unpunished, and Israelis having to live with it and live under the threat of it happening again. Get as outraged as you want and call me all the names you want. This is the reality.

No one in this thread is telling Israeli to go back to Germany or Europe. Not one person.

People are telling them to stop the genocide in Gaza and colonizing land in the West Bank.

They can live in the 1967 borders and everyone will be happy.

But Israel doesn't want that. They want to form the Greater Israel as their finance and security ministers have said countless times.

But you willfully chose to ignore this fact because Arabs bad.

 

[SuperAlly]

Toothless. That's really a good description of yourself when it comes to israeli crimes.

Israel has leveled hospitals to the ground, bombed humanitarian workers, bombed refugees in safe zones where they displaced them, bombed starving people gathered to get flour, bomb people gathered to pray, bombed people in tents, sniped dozens of children as described by humanitarian surgeons and so on

But hey the other side has done "illegal" things. Not Israel. In B4 "but but but they have uniforms when they commit those crimes! It makes it legal!"

We're also still waiting to see how you "care deeply about Palestinians" like you pretend. Anytime now.

Delusional

 

[SuperAlly]

It doesnt though, the Israelis have pretty obviously broken the rules they signed up to and the kind of defences offered here would fall in the ICC if the law were followed.

There are no extenuating circumstances which make the deliberate mass targeting of civilians legal, which make the deliberate mass destruction of civilian infrastructure needed to live legal.

Pretty depressing to see that "sensible dems" basically don't care about the laws of war when it comes to propping up their ego and not admitting fault.

South Africa tried to take Israel to the ICC with no evidence and got laughed out of the room

Pro terrorist people need to work on their lies better

 

[SuperAlly]

Taking hostages is bad, but taking thousands of civilians prisoners is good right ?

How do we know they are "civilians"?

Is this like the "civilians" who raped and pillaged across Israel on 7th October?

Is this the same "civilians" who held innocent Israeli hostages captive?

 

[SuperAlly]

I get this is a very emotional and perhaps very personal subject for you but please understand most people react with laugh emojis or however else not because we (at least I) think people dying is funny but it's in reaction to your constant use of low reliability highly emotionally charged posts. Maybe you think highly of gonzo style journalism or you have utmost faith in tiktok and IG posts but I don't. I also have limited faith in certain publications such as Al Jazeera due to constant anti Israeli bias(at least in my opinion).

I have repeatedly stated I am against this war and civilians needlessly dying. Our disagreement is over who should be acquiescing to demands. Seems like the side taking enormous losses and destruction should surrender.

We also disagree in that you seemingly think there's no amount of acceptable civilian deaths which are collateral to military objectives. I disagree with that. I don't think IDF is intentionally targeting civilians as a matter of policy. This is not to say there haven't been screw ups, civilians dying with fighters, etc.

I will agree with you even in that IDF in their rush to take out Hamas have done some fucked up things. Fog of war does that. Pick a war and it happens every single time. Friendly fire. Wedding party getting bombed. Drones getting jammed and crashing into civilian infrastructure. Etc.

As I have stated repeatedly I support a two state solution and I want Israelis and Palestinians to find a way to coexist. I don't view Palestinians as inferior to anyone else and I doubt anyone here does either(at least I really hope). Palestinians are 21% of the Arab population within Israel proper. That's 378,000 Palestinians living in Israel.

The BBC even have shown themselves not to be able to report impartially on this conflict

Also, your last paragraph absolutely skewers the clown who talks of ethnic cleansing by Israel

You'd have to be dumb as fuck or just incredibly twisted to say such a thing

 

[SuperAlly]

You pushed for a more exact moral comparison to current events, I gave you one in the Germans colonial genocide in Namibia which you now seem to be ignoring along with every other argument in that post whilst pushing a strawman that I support the Oct 7th attacks.

Seriously how many times does that dishonest nonsense need to be shot down before it loses credibility? its perfectly possible to decry Hamas's attacks AND also think that the Isrealis have exploited them to upkick their program of ethnic cleansing which our own governments are directly supporting.

Have I said anything about the Israelis "going back to Germany"? again another dishonest strawman argument, its perfectly possible to view current events as colonialism without believing that the Isreali population should be "sent back to europe". I mean we've have a UN ratified plan for a two state solution for decades which the Israelis and their western allies have clealy not committed to. You could be anti apartheid without thinking the white South African population should deported just that they should not be able to enact policies of murderous racial supremism with our governments support.

Its this fantasy I think your caught up in, the belief the Isrealis and their western allies have ever seriously been committed to a 2 state solution when I think evidence very clearly points to the reverse with the mass of illegal settlements in the west bank. Its a lie which has been well sold by much of our political/media class for decades but its becoming ever harder to maintain in the face of what were seeing now and I think outside of the genuine racial/cultural supremists only the ill informed or those too arrogant to admit they were hoodwicked still cling to it.

There is no ethnic cleansing

You are a liar and a twisted human being

 

[SuperAlly]

The irony of accusing someone that he thinks that heinous war crimes are fine and should go unpunished when you yourself think that about Israeli war crimes because "Hamas doesn't have uniform so they don't have a choice but to kill dozens of thousands of children, wether in the safe zones they tell them to go to or when they gather starving to have flour"

Idiots like you misuse the terms like war crimes without knowing or deliberately ignoring what words mean

Horrible

 

[SuperAlly]

No one in this thread is telling Israeli to go back to Germany or Europe. Not one person.

People are telling them to stop the genocide in Gaza and colonizing land in the West Bank.

They can live in the 1967 borders and everyone will be happy.

But Israel doesn't want that. They want to form the Greater Israel as their finance and security ministers have said countless times.

But you willfully chose to ignore this fact because Arabs bad.

There is no genocide

You are a liar

Stop misusing emotive terms. It's disgusting

 

[SuperAlly]

To liars like @Koya and @moreorless87

There is one side in this conflict who attempted and are committed to genocide

It is the Palestinian side

Stop repeating lies please.

 

[SammyPops]

So your issue is that Israelis protect their people too well and Hamas don't give a shit about theirs? It's not 'fair'?

Proportionality is a fair point of discussion. What is Israel doing to Hamas in Gaza that Russia is not doing to Ukrainians? Or US in Afghanistan/Iraq?(I am not focusing on aggressor aspect only what a superior military force is doing)

The problem is how do you fight this war so it's more 'fair'?

You want Israel to fight on Hamas's terms which would make no sense. That's like asking any modern powerful military to get into trench warfare using WW I rifles or going door to door knowing that Hamas has near limitless network of tunnels. I doubt any modern army would want to play 'whack a mole'.

It is the goal of Hamas to maximize civilian losses. The only way to make it stop is to end the war.

We can both hate what is happening but I don't see another way to rid the region of Hamas. I welcome any proposal outside of continued war that stops the war and gets rid of Hamas.

As an example PA recently arrested Hamas leader in WB causing a clash. I personally would like to see PA take a more dominant role in Gaza and take back control there.

My issue is that Israel has been colonizing for 75 years, created the world's largest concentration camp, committed war crimes and plausible genocide, established a culture of kidnapping, rape, adn murder of nonJewish civilians.

Moroever, zionists in the West have coopted our systems to provide funding and weapons to facilitate the above, and if one even dares to question zionists they are cancelled- even when they are Jews.

Just an fyi- I stop reading your posts when I get to the first misrepresentation/lie, so if you want to resond to a longer post, try to see past yor Jewish Supremacy and actually read and understand my arguments.

 

[SammyPops]

This is a special kind of stupid that you can't teach

So are you saying facts are antisemitic or your Jewish Supremacy prevents you from caring that nonJewish kids were killed?

 

[I Am Legion]

No one in this thread is telling Israeli to go back to Germany or Europe. Not one person.

People are telling them to stop the genocide in Gaza and colonizing land in the West Bank.

They can live in the 1967 borders and everyone will be happy.

But Israel doesn't want that. They want to form the Greater Israel as their finance and security ministers have said countless times.

But you willfully chose to ignore this fact because Arabs bad.

Dude, you think the terrorists will just leave Israel be if they live in 1967 borders? When they openly say the purpose of life is to exterminate Jews? And no mention of Hezbollah firing rockets daily into Israel? Or hostages still being held and or killed? What is Israel truly supposed to do with terrorists? The Palestinian people elected a terror group as their government. No peace until all of Hamas are gone. Then Israel has to do with Iranians, Syrians, and Lebanese terror groups.

 

[I Am Legion]

My issue is that Israel has been colonizing for 75 years, created the world's largest concentration camp, committed war crimes and plausible genocide, established a culture of kidnapping, rape, adn murder of nonJewish civilians.

Moroever, zionists in the West have coopted our systems to provide funding and weapons to facilitate the above, and if one even dares to question zionists they are cancelled- even when they are Jews.

Just an fyi- I stop reading your posts when I get to the first misrepresentation/lie, so if you want to resond to a longer post, try to see past yor Jewish Supremacy and actually read and understand my arguments.

All of what you say has some truth to it. But you leave out a culture of terrorists intent on destroying Israel. You leave out Hamas started this on Oct 7th, and there are still hostages being killed. You leave out Hezbollah firing rockets daily. Gaza entrusted a terror group to be their government. They invested hundreds of millions into a military state. No investment in education or health care. That isn't Israel's fault. How come other Palestinians aren't suffering like Gaza is? Why is it that the neighboring Muslim countries don't want Palestinian refugees from Gaza? What would you do if your neighbor publicly stated death to you and then attacked your civilians, killing thousands and abducting hundreds?

 

[SammyPops]

Imagine thinking Russia or China actually give a shit about the conflict other than using as a tool to dig at the US.

Do you see what they do to their own people? lmao

Not to mention China doesn't have the ability to deploy across the world and Russia is a bit busy right now.

Imagine a country doing whats in its best interests as opposed to being controlled by a foreign govt and lobby to provide billions in weapons and destroying its reputation with the global south.

 

[Rational Poster]

Imagine a country doing whats in its best interests as opposed to being controlled by a foreign govt and lobby to provide billions in weapons and destroying its reputation with the global south.

Hey guys I'm not antiemetic I swear but "antiemetic conspiracy"

You are a fucking joke, grow up loser.

 

[SammyPops]

Taking hostages is bad, but taking thousands of civilians prisoners is good right ?

Israelis need to get their rape victims from somewhere

@DevilsS