Law Gun and Gun Control News/Discussion

[spamking]

I already quoted a few accounts from such ERs and how these doctors struggle to treat such wounds, why should I take your word on their experience over theirs?

You're free to do whatever . . .

Relaying accounts from ERs that have to deal with mass shooting victims is hyperbole and ignorance? I think if anything you're the one displaying ignorance and hyperbole.

HOW they're being relayed. Vaporizing bodies . . . . heads, liquifying organs.

Ah don't be dishonest now, that wasn't my point and you know it. The point isn't that firearms cause damage, of course they do. The point is that firearms chambered in rounds like 5.56 cause a significantly higher amount of tissue damage which makes them far harder for doctors to treat and therefore perhaps such arms should be subjected to extra scrutiny.

Where am I being dishonest?

In the case of a close quarters mass shooting just about any round will cause significantly more damage at closer range than long range. Of course a rifle will cause more damage than a pistol the vast majority of the time. 5.56 or not.

 

[spamking]

I'm a registered Democrat and no I don't want to take your guns. I just think that, idk, maybe an 18 yr old shouldn't be allowed to buy thousands of dollars worth of long guns chambered in cartridges like 5.56 on credit with little to no scrutiny.

Even though he was able to legally do so . . . that fact isn't the biggest issue with that shooting.

 

[My Spot]

You're free to do whatever . . .



HOW they're being relayed. Vaporizing bodies . . . . heads, liquifying organs.



Where am I being dishonest?

In the case of a close quarters mass shooting just about any round will cause significantly more damage at closer range than long range. Of course a rifle will cause more damage than a pistol the vast majority of the time. 5.56 or not.

It's weird he's so scared of 5.56 yet has no concern for 6.5, 6.8, 7.62 NATO, etc.

 

[spamking]

It's weird he's so scared of 5.56 yet has no concern for 6.5, 6.8, 7.62 NATO, etc.

I kinda get it, but in a classroom caliber won't matter much in my opinion.

 

[Islam Imamate]

HOW they're being relayed. Vaporizing bodies . . . . heads, liquifying organs.

Did you read the accounts from people who have treated these victims that I posted earlier? That's really not far off at all from what they saw.

I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

That's from someone who treated the victims of Parkland.

Where am I being dishonest?

In the case of a close quarters mass shooting just about any round will cause significantly more damage at closer range than long range. Of course a rifle will cause more damage than a pistol the vast majority of the time. 5.56 or not.

It was dishonest to imply that my point was merely that guns do damage. Of course you understood my point perfectly as you finally conceded it here.

Even though he was able to legally do so . . . that fact isn't the biggest issue with that shooting.

Uh yes I know he was legally able to do so, that's kind of the problem. You really think someone that age should be able to buy thousands of dollars worth of firearms on credit? Does the 2nd amendment cover the right to financing to purchase guns in your view?

 

[jlagman]

I already quoted a few accounts from such ERs and how these doctors struggle to treat such wounds, why should I take your word on their experience over theirs?

FWIW I don't think America takes the death toll from MVC serious enough either but I suppose that's for a different thread.

Relaying accounts from ERs that have to deal with mass shooting victims is hyperbole and ignorance? I think if anything you're the one displaying ignorance and hyperbole.

Ah don't be dishonest now, that wasn't my point and you know it. The point isn't that firearms cause damage, of course they do. The point is that firearms chambered in rounds like 5.56 cause a significantly higher amount of tissue damage which makes them far harder for doctors to treat and therefore perhaps such arms should be subjected to extra scrutiny.

As I and others have pointed out, that's basically every centrefire rifle. So what are you saying? Rifle sales deserve more scrutiny, even through, statistically, they're responsible for a tiny fraction of "gun violence"?

 

[Islam Imamate]

As I and others have pointed out, that's basically every centrefire rifle. So what are you saying? Rifle sales deserve more scrutiny, even through, statistically, they're responsible for a tiny fraction of "gun violence"?

If they're semiautomatic and use detachable magazines then yes, they should only be sold to those 21 and older. Guns chambered in .22LR and similar small game rounds should be fine for those 18-20.

 

[jlagman]

If they're semiautomatic and use detachable magazines then yes, they should only be sold to those 21 and older. Guns chambered in .22LR and similar small game rounds should be fine for those 18-20.

Then that should have been your point to begin with, rather than hitch your horse on the 5.56 "exploding heads and vaporized organs" hyperbole.

Good luck though, semiautomatic rifles with detachable box magazines are very popular and only the vocal minority is wanting more restrictions on them.

States rights and all that.

 

[jlagman]

As for the anecdotal accounts from trauma surgeons and the like, take them with a grain of salt. Let's not forget that these are sensationalized, news-"friendly" articles, rife with incidiary language. An official autopsy report won't have unprofessional hyperbole like, "...smashed with a sledgehammer" to describe a fucking gunshot wound.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Then that should have been your point to begin with, rather than hitch your horse on the 5.56 "exploding heads and vaporized organs" hyperbole.

Well the round matters, as I said I wouldn't want guns chambered in 22LR to be restricted that way. Anyway you guys keep saying its hyperbole even though the very people who treated the victims of shootings like Parkland are giving us these accounts. Seems like you guys just want to dismiss them because the reality of these mass shootings happens to be convenient for your opposition.

Good luck though, semiautomatic rifles with detachable box magazines are very popular and only the vocal minority is wanting more restrictions on them.

States rights and all that.

The thing is its the gun nuts who are the vocal minority while the majority want more strict gun laws and almost 2/3rds want an assault weapons ban. I don't even agree with an AWB but if you want to talk about who the vocal minority is and what the majority wants the numbers aren't on your side.

As for the anecdotal accounts from trauma surgeons and the like, take them with a grain of salt. Let's not forget that these are sensationalized, news-"friendly" articles, rife with incidiary language. An official autopsy report won't have unprofessional, hyperbole like, "...smashed with a sledgehammer" to describe a fucking gunshot wound.

Uh yes of course an article by The Atlantic isn't going to read like a fucking autopsy report, why on earth would it?

Point is the people who have to pick up the pieces from these mass shootings see first hand the kind of damage these guns can do, especially when children are the victims. They're recalling having to treat fatally shot minors and you're irked at some supposed hyperbole? Really? Your priorities are a little misplaced here pal.

 

[jlagman]

Well the round matters, as I said I wouldn't want guns chambered in 22LR to be restricted that way. Anyway you guys keep saying its hyperbole even though the very people who treated the victims of shootings like Parkland are giving us these accounts. Seems like you guys just want to dismiss them because the reality of these mass shootings happens to be convenient for your opposition.

The thing is its the gun nuts who are the vocal minority while the majority want more strict gun laws and almost 2/3rds want an assault weapons ban. I don't even agree with an AWB but if you want to talk about who the vocal minority is and what the majority wants the numbers aren't on your side.

It was only a matter of time before cherry-picked sample groups were brought up in a gun control argument. Here's my anecdotal evidence, whenever new gun legislation is announced, guns and ammunition fly off of the store shelves.

Sales figures versus tiny sample sized surveys and polls, you be the judge.

Uh yes of course an article by The Atlantic isn't going to read like a fucking autopsy report, why on earth would it?

Point is the people who have to pick up the pieces from these mass shootings see first hand the kind of damage these guns can do, especially when children are the victims. They're recalling having to treat fatally shot minors and you're irked at some supposed hyperbole? Really? Your priorities are a little misplaced here pal.

Because they sacrifice their objectivity when they say shit like "exploding heads, vaporized organs, sledgehammer analogies, etc." When you need to put the bullshit spin and exaggerate fatal injuries to push a narrative and agenda, it's not "supposed hyperbole", it's actual hyperbole.

Someone brought up MVCs; let me know when there are anecdotal accounts, with hyperbolic, graphic details on national news chains and I'll let you know when the agenda to further restrict and regulate private motor vehicles will be proposed.

 

[jlagman]

Here's my anecdotal evidence regarding gunshot wounds:

Disclaimer, I am not a medical professional of any kind, however, I've hunted and have field dressed critters hit with much more potent rounds than .223 (5.56). I've never seen a gunshot wound in an animal, that resembled a sledgehammer strike or a deer with "vaporized organs" after being shot with a .30 calibre (hint, bigger and heavier than a .223).

Buzzwords like "tumbling, fragmentation, cavitation", used to demonize a cartridge like the 5.56, aren't even actual inherent qualities of the cartridge itself; there are many more factors that come into play like barrel length, twist rate, projectile weight and construction, etc. which may result in those aforementioned effects, but it has very little to do with 5.56 in and of itself.

 

[Islam Imamate]

It was only a matter of time before cherry-picked sample groups were brought up in a gun control argument. Here's my anecdotal evidence, whenever new gun legislation is announced, guns and ammunition fly off of the store shelves.

Sales figures versus tiny sample sized surveys and polls, you be the judge.

Basically, I disproved your claim so you want to dismiss actual evidence and point to something completely irrelevant. Not surprised.

Because they sacrifice their objectivity when they say shit like "exploding heads, vaporized organs, sledgehammer analogies, etc." When you need to put the bullshit spin and exaggerate fatal injuries to push a narrative and agenda, it's not "supposed hyperbole", it's actual hyperbole.

Someone brought up MVCs; let me know when there are anecdotal accounts, with hyperbolic, graphic details on national news chains and I'll let you know when the agenda to further restrict and regulate private motor vehicles will be proposed.

Hmm I wonder who would know more about this, an obviously biased gun nut who dismisses contrary evidence or actual radiologists and trauma surgeons who have treated victims of mass shootings? Such a tough choice...

 

[jlagman]

Basically, I disproved your claim so you want to dismiss actual evidence and point to something completely irrelevant. Not surprised.

Hmm I wonder who would know more about this, an obviously biased gun nut who dismisses contrary evidence or actual radiologists and trauma surgeons who have treated victims of mass shootings? Such a tough choice...

I've seen actual gunshot wounds (on animals) pal, you're just regurgitating some hyperbolic article which reinforces your preconceived notions.

Edit:

As for dismissing evidence, you're one to talk. Someone posted video of projectiles going through ballistic gel and pieces of meat, yet here you are, ignoring evidence and hiding behind your obviously biased article, laden with overly dramatic language.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I've seen actual gunshot wounds (on animals) pal, you're just regurgitating some hyperbolic article which reinforces your preconceived notions.

Edit:

As for dismissing evidence, you're one to talk. Someone posted video of projectiles going through ballistic gel and pieces of meat, yet here you are, ignoring evidence and hiding behind your obviously biased article, laden with overly dramatic language.

So you shot a deer once and now you think you understand tissue damage better than trauma surgeons who have operated on mass shooting victims, what a joke.

 

[My Spot]

I've seen actual gunshot wounds (on animals) pal, you're just regurgitating some hyperbolic article which reinforces your preconceived notions.

Edit:

As for dismissing evidence, you're one to talk. Someone posted video of projectiles going through ballistic gel and pieces of meat, yet here you are, ignoring evidence and hiding behind your obviously biased article, laden with overly dramatic language.

Wait until he finds out about 12 gauge slugs.

 

[jlagman]

So you shot a deer once and now you think you understand tissue damage better than trauma surgeons who have operated on mass shooting victims, what a joke.

So you read a biased article once and now you think you understand tissue damage as well as a trauma surgeon embellishing their anecdotal stories and looking for their 15 minutes of fame, what a joke.

I can play that game too.

 

[Beechwood]

Read this piece this morning. Does appear the Democrats want most of your guns.


Yep, it's true! They're coming for your guns.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/07/yep_its_true_theyre_coming_for_your_guns.html

 

[spamking]

Did you read the accounts from people who have treated these victims that I posted earlier? That's really not far off at all from what they saw.


That's from someone who treated the victims of Parkland.

It was dishonest to imply that my point was merely that guns do damage. Of course you understood my point perfectly as you finally conceded it here.

Uh yes I know he was legally able to do so, that's kind of the problem. You really think someone that age should be able to buy thousands of dollars worth of firearms on credit? Does the 2nd amendment cover the right to financing to purchase guns in your view?

So you've gone from the evil 5.56 is a tumbling organ liquifying round to folks shouldn't be able to buy what they want via credit card.

Feel free to get the last word in on this exchange if you want . . . I'm moving on with other posts.

 

[spamking]

A couple of bills being voted on . . . .