Law Gun and Gun Control News/Discussion

[Belaya Smert]

Not sure how Stewart can in one breath say he is pro 2-A and then equate more guns to more murder. This is sociopath talk. Every crime metric increased over the last two years
regardless if a firearm was used in commission of said crime. Just can’t put my finger on what underlying social issue would bookend those 24 months. What could it be?

 

[spamking]

 

[spamking]

Gun seizure orders due to failed BGCs hits historic pace

WASHINGTON – The FBI has been issuing more seizure orders for guns sold to suspected prohibited buyers than at any time in the history of the federal firearm background check system, according to the most recent data compiled by the bureau.

More than 6,300 such referrals were transmitted to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives in 2020 to take back weapons from buyers when background checks later determined they may have been ineligible because of criminal records, mental health histories, disqualifying military service records and other bans.

An additional 5,200 directives were issued in 2021, adding to the largest two-year total by far since the National Instant Criminal Background Check System began publishing data in 1998.

To me, this shows the data behind the BGCs needs to be revamped in a bad way. What are they seeing so long after the fact that would warrant a seizure that they didn't catch during the initial check?

 

[oldshadow]

It's the anti 2nd left that doesn't care about murder victims and their families. They don't want the criminals held responsible.

 

[spamking]

@Rational Poster you might find this ATF report interesting as it relates to weapons used in crimes.

The National Firearms Commerce and Trafficking Assessment, NFCTA: Crime Guns – Volume Two covers the 2017-2021 time period and collects data on states and cities interactions with firearms and attempts to categorize to track trends and provide information. There is a lot to unpack in this report and it is very informative.

The ATF found that 54% of traced crime guns were recovered by law enforcement more than three years after their purchase. Those guns were legally purchased, but were later used in crimes, the report indicated.

Time to crime is a factor that is tracked, as well as locations, common FFLs, and as much information as possible to see where guns used in crime come from and what can be done to intervene. But the answer to that is one people don’t like. Crime guns come from a tremendous number of sources and represent a small fraction of firearms transfers in any given year. So, we can only do so much to stop them.

It also compares trace stats and total number of BGCs completed.

During the period from 2000 to 2021, 77% (5,894,667 of 7,633,131) of all trace requests were completed. Since 2016, the trace
completion rate has remained above 80%, the system is better and the market is full of newer post 68 firearms. Of the 23% of requests that were not completed, 1,738,464 trace requests in total, 366,281 (4.7%) requests were duplicates, 44,785 (0.58%) were stopped by requestor, 869,440 (11.4%) had invalid or inadequate firearm markings, and 457,958 (6%) were pre-GCA weapons and not required to be marked, as they were made prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act which began requiring specific marking.

During the time period, 2000 to 2021, a total of 401,545,091 requests were submitted to FBI NICS and denials (including 1998 and 1999) were only 2,039,507. So in the majority of the history of our national background check system and the mandate to use it by federal dealers, only 0.5% were denied the transfer. 1 in 200.

There's a lot of other interesting data in the report as well.

 

[spamking]

This should be interesting.

 

[Rational Poster]

@Rational Poster you might find this ATF report interesting as it relates to weapons used in crimes.



It also compares trace stats and total number of BGCs completed.



There's a lot of other interesting data in the report as well.

That's kind of the point I'm driving at. The majority of guns used in crimes aren't stolen. It would be nice, but it's not that simple. It's much more complicated.

What happens to a gun after the initial "legal" purchase varies greatly, but most of the time it's a so called "law abiding" citizen that suddenly decides to stop abiding laws. The background check system is basically pencil pushing. A hoop that people on all sides pretend to jump through.

 

[djacobox372]

Not sure how Stewart can in one breath say he is pro 2-A and then equate more guns to more murder. This is sociopath talk. Every crime metric increased over the last two years
regardless if a firearm was used in commission of said crime. Just can’t put my finger on what underlying social issue would bookend those 24 months. What could it be?

I'm pro 2-A and have not problem admitting that more guns equal more murder. It's just not enough "more" murder for me to be willing to give up my right to protect myself and my family.

People who claim that guns make us "safer" in day to day life are factually challenged. Guns make our FREEDOM safer, but that freedom is paid for in lives. And it's a price worth paying.

 

[Belaya Smert]

I'm pro 2-A and have not problem admitting that more guns equal more murder. It's just not enough "more" murder for me to be willing to give up my right to protect myself and my family.

People who claim that guns make us "safer" in day to day life are factually challenged. Guns make our FREEDOM safer, but that freedom is paid for in lives. And it's a price worth paying.

I understand what you are getting at but more LAW Abiding people owning firearms does not equate to more murder. And even then how many times would those guns take an innocent life?

 

[My Spot]

I'm pro 2-A and have not problem admitting that more guns equal more murder. It's just not enough "more" murder for me to be willing to give up my right to protect myself and my family.

People who claim that guns make us "safer" in day to day life are factually challenged. Guns make our FREEDOM safer, but that freedom is paid for in lives. And it's a price worth paying.

 

[My Spot]

Just because roughly 6.7% of the country can't get their shit together doesn't mean the rest of us should be punished.

 

[spamking]

That's kind of the point I'm driving at. The majority of guns used in crimes aren't stolen. It would be nice, but it's not that simple. It's much more complicated.

What happens to a gun after the initial "legal" purchase varies greatly, but most of the time it's a so called "law abiding" citizen that suddenly decides to stop abiding laws.

We don't know that for sure as was laid out in the report. We don't know what happens or how many times the gun might change hands between the time of purchase and the time of the crime.

The background check system is basically pencil pushing. A hoop that people on all sides pretend to jump through.

How do people on all sides pretend to jump through the BGC system?

 

[Rational Poster]

We don't know that for sure as was laid out in the report. We don't know what happens or how many times the gun might change hands between the time of purchase and the time of the crime.



How do people on all sides pretend to jump through the BGC system?

Well no shit you don't say?

As to pencil pushing, by your own source, only .5% of ALL applications have ever been rejected. Seems like exceedingly low rate if you ask me.

 

[spamking]

Well no shit you don't say?

You seemed to be pretty confident that the data showed it was the fault of law abiding folks who legally purchase and then just decide to break the law.

As to pencil pushing, by your own source, only .5% of ALL applications have ever been rejected. Seems like exceedingly low rate if you ask me.

So you want them to dig deeper or be more in-depth?

 

[oldshadow]

You seemed to be pretty confident that the data showed it was the fault of law abiding folks who legally purchase and then just decide to break the law.



So you want them to dig deeper or be more in-depth?

What they most likely don't make known outright. Is most "legally " purchased gun that criminals get are in fact straw purchases which are in fact illegal. If if intentionally purchased a gun to give it to someone that you know cannot own a gun the purchase is illegal. Girlfriends of gang bangers are one example.

And to top that when they do prove the gun used in a crime the person that made the straw purchase get little to no punishment.

 

[Rational Poster]

You seemed to be pretty confident that the data showed it was the fault of law abiding folks who legally purchase and then just decide to break the law.



So you want them to dig deeper or be more in-depth?

There is fault by law abiding gun owners, not entirely but certainly a major contributing factor to the issue, it's not deniable based on the data I've researched and what you've provided. They either sell or give their gun to someone that shouldn't have it. They don't secure their fire arm properly and it gets stolen AND they don't report it. The aftermarket transfer of fire arms is a glaring weakness in the process. Straw purchases in general, but especially straw purchases for a criminal that intends to commit a crime with the purchased gun immediately, are very rare instances.

I'm not sure what the solution is but the first step towards it is honestly acknowledging all the contributing factors.

 

[spamking]

There is fault by law abiding gun owners, not entirely but certainly a major contributing factor to the issue, it's not deniable based on the data I've researched and what you've provided. They either sell or give their gun to someone that shouldn't have it.

Guns change hands sometimes after the initial purchase. I understand that. Do some of the people involved in that first private sale involve a prohibited person? I'm sure they have. I'm not denying that.

They don't secure their fire arm properly and it gets stolen AND they don't report it.

Guns get stolen for any number of reasons. I will agree that reporting a stolen firearm should be a law and required of every owner.

The aftermarket transfer of fire arms is a glaring weakness in the process.

But not the biggest issue.

Straws purchases in general, but especially straw purchases for a criminal that intends to commit a crime with the purchased gun immediately, are very rare instances.

Straw purchases do in fact happen. Time to crime is something they track when possible, but ultimately doesn't matter in my opinion. At least not as much as whether the original purchaser is also the criminal caught.

I'm not sure what the solution is but the first step towards it is honestly acknowledging all the contributing factors.

Yep. It would be nice if everyone involved (especially politicians) could do that instead of immediately jumping on the ban this or ban that wagon.

 

[spamking]

 

[Rational Poster]

Guns change hands sometimes after the initial purchase. I understand that. Do some of the people involved in that first private sale involve a prohibited person? I'm sure they have. I'm not denying that.



Guns get stolen for any number of reasons. I will agree that reporting a stolen firearm should be a law and required of every owner.



But not the biggest issue.



Straw purchases do in fact happen. Time to crime is something they track when possible, but ultimately doesn't matter in my opinion. At least not as much as whether the original purchaser is also the criminal caught.



Yep. It would be nice if everyone involved (especially politicians) could do that instead of immediately jumping on the ban this or ban that wagon.

By your own data over 50% of guns used in crimes were purchased legally. So obviously to say it's not the biggest contributing factor when it's over half the source is not honest.

 

[Belaya Smert]

Criminals don’t follow the law or legally acquire their firearms; spare me the bullshit here guys.


Most guns used in crimes changed hands since their purchase, the report states. It also found what Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco called an epidemic of stolen guns: more than 1.07 million firearms were reported stolen between 2017 and 2021. Almost all of those, 96%, were from private individuals.