GSP talks about Tom not focusing on the right thing

[orca]

Same shit different results. I'm not talking personal life, I am talking about what is best for the sport. GSP walked away from the title inside of a month and let the division move on. Would you prefer he held out for 2 years to fight Rich Franklin?

do you really believe these fighters care about the sport
or the money they could gain?
the sport will move on with or without gsp or jones

 

[mkess101]

GSP was in a mirror situation to Jones.

He dodged Woodley to fight Bisping, which was the easier fight against the more weathered opponent.

Whittaker was next, and GSP chose to retire instead.

But, the thing is, if you've already competed against the best for 10-15+ years, you've already accomplished everything there is to accomplish, what else do you really have to prove?

Would GSP or Jones gain anything if they'd fought Whittaker and aspinall? It would be a great feather in the cap at the end of a storied career, but it wouldn't really change the bottom line in terms of legacy and all time status.

Much as we want the fight, I think people need to understand such a situation from the perspective of a top fighter at the end of their career.


With that in mind, where this situation does change is money. Jones is in a position where he doesn't have to fight again. If the UFC wants it, they'll bend the rules to make it happen, if not, then he's out.

Which is a great position to be in terms of leverage, especially in a star deprived ufc.

That being said, I think it happens.

Probably depends on who wins the poatan magomedov rematch. If poatan wins, I could see Jones giving up the title and moving down.

Short sighted.

If Jones loses: he lost to a bigger guy in his prime in a weight class that wasn't his for most of his career

If Jones wins: the narrative that people attempt to push here is that "everyone will just say Aspinall sucks like they did Gane". But there are flaws in that thinking.

Gane had already lost by being outgrappled by a striker. The signs were already there that Gane had a weakness in his grappling when Ngannou (hardly known for being a dominant wrestler) beat Gane primarily through grappling. More importantly, Aspinall won't retire whether he wins or loses. Likely, he will start stacking KO's again and become an all time great HW judging by what we've seen. (He's quite obviously really good, and the division quite obviously isn't. There's a wide gap between Jones/Aspinall and everyone else and will be for awhile). Every win and title defense that Aspinall accumulates after the Jones fight adds to the positive side of Jones' legacy whether Jones wins or loses to Tom. If Jones wins, he beat what's likely to become an all time top HW in his prime. If Jones loses, he lost to one (and a weight class up and when Jones was a bit past his prime and Aspinall was in his).

This narrative that there's not really upside for Jones is ridiculous.

AAAAAAAND...you're right about the money part too!

Edit: you're **sort of** right about the money. Jones doesn't "need" the money but he's not LeBron. A $15m payday or whatever does absolutely matter to him.

 

[AstralPanda]

They both moved up and took advantage of a weaker champ or a vacant belt with weaker contender.

GSP handed back the title and walked away > Jones made a joke of the HW division for 3 years.
Similar situation handled completely differently, not the same

GSP was also a much bigger star and a lot smarter with his money, he did not need another pay day

Jones was scheduled to fight Stipe and got injured, after they'd already did a promotional run, all the logistics and they'd had full camps.

Stipe was never not going to be the fight when he came back. That wasn't holding up the division.

Tom didn't come into the picture until afterwards.

There's no real indication of what's going to happen with the Tom bout yet, Dana said it's gonna happen, Jones said he needs 6 months, it's all a waiting game.

Acting like he should be giving up the belt after 6 months while they're in the middle of negotiations is a little crazy

If it were a year, I would understand the sentiment. But 6 months?

Only we can do is wait to see how it plays out.

 

[AstralPanda]

Short sighted.

If Jones loses: he lost to a bigger guy in his prime in a weight class that wasn't his for most of his career

If Jones wins: the narrative that people attempt to push here is that "everyone will just say Aspinall sucks like they did Gane". But there are flaws in that thinking.

Gane had already lost by being outgrappled by a striker. The signs were already there that Gane had a weakness in his grappling when Ngannou (hardly known for being a dominant wrestler) beat Gane primarily through grappling. More importantly, Aspinall won't retire whether he wins or loses. Likely, he will start stacking KO's again and become an all time great HW judging by what we've seen. (He's quite obviously really good, and the division quite obviously isn't. There's a wide gap between Jones/Aspinall and everyone else and will be for awhile). Every win and title defense that Aspinall accumulates after the Jones fight adds to the positive side of Jones' legacy whether Jones wins or loses to Tom. If Jones wins, he beat what's likely to become an all time top HW in his prime. If Jones loses, he lost to one (and a weight class up and when Jones was a bit past his prime and Aspinall was in his).

This narrative that there's not really upside for Jones is ridiculous.

AAAAAAAND...you're right about the money part too!

Edit: you're **sort of** right about the money. Jones doesn't "need" the money but he's not LeBron. A $15m payday or whatever does absolutely matter to him.

It would be a nice cherry on top of a storied career. I don't think anyone disputes that.

But he's going down as the goat regardless. So the implications in terms of legacy and all time status are fairly minimal.

Half a dozen fighters have publically said this as well, including both DC and Jones.

That being said, obviously it's a great fight and we all want to see it. But, im just highlighting this is how guys like GSP and Jones are thinking when you're in the twilight of an accomplished career.

The caveat, again, comes down to money. On paper, this win may do nothing for Jones, relative to what he's already accomplished, but money is the great equalizer.

 

[method115]

I've been saying this. In 2 month he will have been out a whole year and for what? He could have had at least 2 fights in that time and make some extra money.

 

[MDoza]

Uh oh, looks like GSP is a Tom-hater/Jones-nut hugger.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Same shit. Glaze gsp and shit on Jones. And more than likely because of his personal life. Hypocrites

He's 100% right tho

If Jon Jones didn't want to fight, all he had to do was to retire. That's what GSP did.
Instead, Jones is acting like a selfish asshole and he's holding back the HW division.
Nothing to do with the fact that he's a POS human being too.

If you're a fighter, you got to fight. If you don't fight, you ain't a fighter, and you don't get to have a title.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

that will be you telling yourself he has only 1 title defense the reality would be different. we have the abillity to use context and apply it to aspinall's career. regardless of what the paper says

You haven't been around MMA long enough then. Name an interim title defense that's viewed as an actual defense lol.

 

[mkess101]

It would be a nice cherry on top of a storied career. I don't think anyone disputes that.

But he's going down as the goat regardless. So the implications in terms of legacy and all time status are fairly minimal.

Half a dozen fighters have publically said this as well, including both DC and Jones.

That being said, obviously it's a great fight and we all want to see it. But, im just highlighting this is how guys like GSP and Jones are thinking when you're in the twilight of an accomplished career.

The caveat, again, comes down to money. On paper, this win may do nothing for Jones, relative to what he's already accomplished, but money is the great equalizer.

Right but even if we say the upside is "a cherry on top"...what's the downside? Like you said, he's gonna be recognized by most as the GOAT regardless and those who don't because of steroids or whatever aren't changing their mind no matter the outcome.

 

[RockyLockridge]

You haven't been around MMA long enough then. Name an interim title defense that's viewed as an actual defense lol.

You're missing the point it's completely up to you. I look at Baraos defenses against Faber, Windland and mcdonald as real defenses. No reason not to. I look at toms win against blaydes as a legitimate title defense. Not interested in what others say.

Aljo has the most defenses at BW, but no one holds him in too high of a regard, because TJ had one arm, Cejudo was off the couch, Yan was a DQ followed by a Lay and pray. We can look at fights and apply context.

 

[GrantB13]

People keep erroneously comparing GSP and Jones without noting that GSP immediately vacated his titles when he wasn't fighting. Jones is sitting on the sidelines on purpose forcing the interim champ to defend because he doesn't want to fight. GSP, Jiri, Hill, all vacated the minute they weren't in positions to fight. Hell, Jones even vacated LHW a few months after the Reyes fight. Why can't he do the same now?

You can make a valid comparison as long as you stop at "neither are fighting the #1 contender" but the comparison ends there.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

exactly, i've been saying this for a while. aspinall is just the new chandler now. the hw chandler. he's sitting on a win over curtis blaydes, one year ago. who the fook cares??? if aspinall is so great, then he should have been crushing cans this whole time, that is his one and only leverage that he could have in this situation. instead he sits on the side, pouts, makes videos of him drinking protein shakes, and is like "why does no one care????" he should be smashing this weak ass division every chance he gets.

 

[mkess101]

exactly, i've been saying this for a while. aspinall is just the new chandler now. the hw chandler. he's sitting on a win over curtis blaydes, one year ago. who the fook cares??? if aspinall is so great, then he should have been crushing cans this whole time, that is his one and only leverage that he could have in this situation. instead he sits on the side, pouts, makes videos of him drinking protein shakes, and is like "why does no one care????" he should be smashing this weak ass division every chance he gets.

Great idea. Since he calls the shots and publicly says he'll fight someone else and the UFC tells him "No, we want the unification bout with Jones and its the big $ fight, sit tight" Tom should just overrule his employer and set up an opponent on his own. Because that's how this all works, Aspinall runs the show.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

Great idea. Since he calls the shots and publicly says he'll fight someone else and the UFC tells him "No, we want the unification bout with Jones and its the big $ fight, sit tight" Tom should just overrule his employer and set up an opponent on his own. Because that's how this all works, Aspinall runs the show.

the key word in my answer was "should."

 

[mkess101]

the key word in my answer was "should."

Ahh so you're not saying it's on him, but on the UFC. Fair enough. Except...you claimed he was pouting sitting on the sidelines etc when the reality is he said he'd fight someone else and the UFC shot it down. So maybe don't act like he's had the chance to smash the division. (Even though there's only 2 other guys left out of the top 10 for him to smash anyway.)

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

yeah but gsp doesnt wanna fight
jones will fight if you pay him money
big difference
also gsp only fought 1 time at MW
jones 2

Sure doesn't look like Jones wants to fight to me.

Stipe was 5 years removed, did not have a single win over a current HW and refused to get involved in either interm title match. Would you have preferred GSP stuck around to fight Rich Franklin instead of Whittaker?

 

[prime_lobov]

Tom should be fighting every 2 weeks and building a Fedor-like win streak. The heavyweight division is awful, just a bunch of fat guys off the street.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

do you really believe these fighters care about the sport
or the money they could gain?
the sport will move on with or without gsp or jones

The sport is not moving on though

Jones has turned the HW division into the same kind of joke boxing use to be.

 

[DFresh1]

yeah but gsp doesnt wanna fight
jones will fight if you pay him money
big difference
also gsp only fought 1 time at MW
jones 2

Come on, even if you want to big up Jones, you have to admit he beat both Gane and Stipe with ease and he knew he would. Stipe was very worn by that time and couldn't put up much of a fight.

What Jones is doing is arguably worse because he's doing it on purpose and trolling for the lulz. At least GSP let the title go and moved on (and had a medical condition to boot).

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

Jones was scheduled to fight Stipe and got injured, after they'd already did a promotional run, all the logistics and they'd had full camps.

Stipe was never not going to be the fight when he came back. That wasn't holding up the division.

Tom didn't come into the picture until afterwards.

There's no real indication of what's going to happen with the Tom bout yet, Dana said it's gonna happen, Jones said he needs 6 months, it's all a waiting game.

Acting like he should be giving up the belt after 6 months while they're in the middle of negotiations is a little crazy

If it were a year, I would understand the sentiment. But 6 months?

Only we can do is wait to see how it plays out.

6 months plus 6 months is a year.

As far as the other crap, Stipe nor any other contender should be allowed to sit out and wait for a title shot if an interm match is going to be held. You wait, you lose your turn. That is exactly what held the division up.

Tom came into the real picture one years before Jones first defense and was the clear cut number one contender especially after Blades.

When you take 1.5 years to have your first defense (through no fault of his own), you shouldn't get another year just to sign a fight with the only option available.

Acting like our champions should only have to fight every year or two is a little crazy.