Greatest of All Time update

[MikeyLan]

Can't vote.

But Fedor.

 

[JustinvR]

the most accomplished hw is the obvious choice, don't see how the others are even in the running unless it's p4p

but where in 'Greatest' is there an * for 'btw, we mean p4p'???
there isn't

GSP, anderson? they might have been p4p better, but not literally greater, don't be ridiculous

we are talking about P4P ofcourse, if MM would be 100-0 in the UFC with all finishes would it be fair to not have him ranked higher as a better fighter than Lesnar just because he is half his size?

 

[SharkBoy]

we are talking about P4P ofcourse, if MM would be 100-0 in the UFC with all finishes would it be fair to not have him ranked higher as a better fighter than Lesnar just because he is half his size?

how could he be better when there is a whole weight class of people who he wouldn't even be competitive against?

this is mma romanticism in a nutshell

if mma were openweight, you wouldn't even have heard of GSP or possibly anderson, it'd be the top ten HW's with the occasional LHW sprinkled in

sorry, but size matters to an extent. Maybe the best basketball player in the world is 5'2 but we'd never know unless there were height divisions according to your logic

 

[JustinvR]

how could he be better when there is a whole weight class of people who he wouldn't even be competitive against?

this is mma romanticism in a nutshell

if mma were openweight, you wouldn't even have heard of GSP or possibly anderson, it'd be the top ten HW's with the occasional LHW sprinkled in

sorry, but size matters to an extent. Maybe the best basketball player in the world is 5'2 but we'd never know unless there were height divisions according to your logic

So by your logic, you can be the most accomplished fighter ever, do what no one else has done, be undefeated in 100 matches and finish them all, but you cant be on top of the P4P list because you would get defeated by a someone who is twice your size.

alright then.

 

[ironfist05]

I disagree, I believe they are totally out of the GOAT discussion, too many losses and not long enough reins.

The only guys in the GOAT discussion are:

Anderson, Fedor, GSP, Jones, Big Nog, and Aldo. They've all had long almost uninterrupted reigns. I would throw Hendo in the discussion since hes the most decorated fighter ever and has beaten 5 maybe 6 divisional GOAT candidates.

I suppose you could say Randy is out of the discussion (I think he's still in just based on the legend factor and his multi-div success), but I think BJ is definately still in the discussion (more so than JBJ at least)

BJ's the LW GOAT, plus the former #1 WW (he beat Hughes when many considered Hughes not only the WW but also the P4P GOAT), and beat a top 10 MW in Rodrigo Gracie. People talk about how GSP could go up to LHW or Silva to HW and be succesful, as far as I'm concerned, BJ and (and Hendo) are the only guys who actually DID go up in weight to two separate weigh classes and be succesfull, rather than just have fans say they could. Penn was never all that he could have been, but even with that he was damned amazing. Not to mention his resume is one of the best out there (Hughes, Gomi and Sherk in particular). And unlike say, Hendo (and I'm by no means trying to tear down Hendo's resume), who was never really #1 in his division, BJ was #1 in two separate divisions.

As for Nog, I don't think you can have him in the GOAT discussion as long as Fedor is there (if he is, then I think you should throw Hughes in too). JBJ is too new IMO, and I'm torn on letting Aldo into the GOAT discussion.

 

[SharkBoy]

So by your logic, you can be the most accomplished fighter ever, do what no one else has done, be undefeated in 100 matches and finish them all, but you cant be on top of the P4P list because you would get defeated by a someone who is twice your size.

alright then.

no, you can be on top of the P4p lists, just not the 'greatest of all list'

 

[thecrosby627]

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

It will always be Fedor.

 

[Andzso]

yet another Fjodor thread

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I went with the guy that would beat up everyone else on the list, prime for prime, Fedor.

 

[PrivatePyle]

Fedor over Anderson by a lil bit. Not much, but a lil bit.

 

[ironfist05]

Also, let me mention that there is a definite anti-lower weight class bias

look at a guy like Dominick Cruz, he's the BW GOAT and has four defenses on his Zuffa title

yet there are many willing to put Cruz behind say... a guy like Rashad.

conversely I have seen people put a guy like Shogun (who is without a doubt a legend and one of the Greats), in their GOAT top 5 ahead of guys in the lower weight classes who were equally dominant but don't have Shogun's aura because they were lower weight class fighters

 

[JustinvR]

I suppose you could say Randy is out of the discussion (I think he's still in just based on the legend factor and his multi-div success), but I think BJ is definately still in the discussion (more so than JBJ at least)

BJ's the LW GOAT, plus the former #1 WW (he beat Hughes when many considered Hughes not only the WW but also the P4P GOAT), and beat a top 10 MW in Rodrigo Gracie. People talk about how GSP could go up to LHW or Silva to HW and be succesful, as far as I'm concerned, BJ and (and Hendo) are the only guys who actually DID go up in weight to two separate weigh classes and be succesfull, rather than just have fans say they could. Penn was never all that he could have been, but even with that he was damned amazing. Not to mention his resume is one of the best out there (Hughes, Gomi and Sherk in particular). And unlike say, Hendo (and I'm by no means trying to tear down Hendo's resume), who was never really #1 in his division, BJ was #1 in two separate divisions.

As for Nog, I don't think you can have him in the GOAT discussion as long as Fedor is there. JBJ is too new IMO, and I'm torn on letting Aldo into the GOAT discussion.

i do agree with your point, its just that the bar of being one of GOATS has been set so high that someone with a record like BJ(its great but also sorta inconsistent compared to fedor,silva,gsp)doesnt get mentioned alot.
btw, Silva also went up in 2 weightclasses, sortof, since he started as a WW and fought LHW's. but its really crazy if you consider that BJ(after his 3rd match with Edgar) has fought from FW to LHW.

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

amazing how many votes silva got after a loss

 

[MMALeBronJames]

 

[lockon]

anderson silva for me.

 

[Selukrid612]

Goat St. Pierre

 

[ironfist05]

i do agree with your point, its just that the bar of being one of GOATS has been set so high that someone with a record like BJ(its great but also sorta inconsistent compared to fedor,silva,gsp)doesnt get mentioned alot.
btw, Silva also went up in 2 weightclasses, sortof, since he started as a WW and fought LHW's. but its really crazy if you consider that BJ(after his 3rd match with Edgar) has fought from FW to LHW.

BJ's record is inconsistent because of his willingness to face the best at higher weight classes (plus he has a lot of controversial decisions, but I won't make excuses there and say he got robbed or whatever). BJ's already one of the divisional GOAT's so that should throw him out there, as well as a former #1 a WW and has wins over top 10 MW's. his status as perenially elite, as well his impressive (albeit inconsistent) multi-div record and undeniable skill should throw him out there for the GOAT discussion in my opinion.

also Anderson said that BJ's the GOAT so Anderson's opinion deserves a mention (just throwing that out there)

note: you are indeed correct about Anderson going up in weight, silly of me to forget that.

 

[EliteLurker]

how could he be better when there is a whole weight class of people who he wouldn't even be competitive against?

this is mma romanticism in a nutshell

if mma were openweight, you wouldn't even have heard of GSP or possibly anderson, it'd be the top ten HW's with the occasional LHW sprinkled in

sorry, but size matters to an extent. Maybe the best basketball player in the world is 5'2 but we'd never know unless there were height divisions according to your logic

Your logic is totally flawed. The best football/basketball players are not the biggest. MJ was only 6'6''. Same in football, the best players not the biggest.

Fedor himself was beat by a guy who fought at MW. We've seen time and time again in this sport that size doesn't make a huge difference. So you are the one that is guilty of romanticizing MMA.

Here is the nail in the coffin to your HW romanticizing. Within HW we see 20-25lbs differences in fighters, and often times the lighter of the two fighters wins. It would stand to reason that going the other way (a HW fighting a LHW or LHW fighting a MW) the lighter fighter could win as well. It's all about skills, technique, and athleticism.

 

[MMALeBronJames]