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Grappling with instructor

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Inge T, Oct 18, 2005.

  1. Inge T

    Inge T I upload things

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    Well, I'm new to the grappling game and really enjoying everything. I just find it strange that when I roll with the instructor, he keeps tapping me with weird gi chokes and leg locks.

    I would've preferred it if he grappled me on a rookie level, using kimuras, RNC's and armbars to tap me, and preferrably also tell me where I made mistakes.

    So, what do you think - how should an instructor grapple the white belts?
     
  2. mogway

    mogway Blue Belt

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    I think the reason why ur instructor taps u out with weird submissions is probabbly because he is trying some new submisions out on you since ur a beginner.
     
  3. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    dunno my teacher beats me with basic stuff. basic chokes, kimuras, etc
     
  4. ichimonji

    ichimonji Blue Belt

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    how many above blue belts to you have at your school. Sometimes instructors need to learn new stuff too; and they use the lower belts to perfect techniques on.
     
  5. Waxwingslain

    Waxwingslain oiseau rebelle

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    This is doubtless it. It's very rare my black belt instructor will get me with as simple as an RNC. He likes to do weird somersaulting lapel chokes using his own gi.
     
  6. Coach Couzo

    Coach Couzo Orange Belt

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    I've noticed this with some BJJ instructors. If the BJJ community wants to grow, it can't continue to beat up on every new person who walks in the door. What does it prove? Anyone above blue belt knows BJJ can make a heavier state wrestler tap, never mind a beginner with no grappling experience. Using advanced moves on a beginner does not help him, nor does it do much for you as a higher belt.

    When I roll with new people (who don't have an ego) I use the fundamentals. This allows beginners to witness the effectiveness of basic moves and defend them. It also helps me to improve the basics (something that should never be overlooked). Don't get me wrong, the higher belts need to continue to learn more advanced moves, but practice them on those of your same caliber.
     
  7. scorcho

    scorcho Brown Belt

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    At our school, the basic rule with grappling beginners is not to use any techniques they have not officially learned. That usually means only armbars and armlocks for the first few months. It is good practice to work the basics.
     
  8. clarkgriswold

    clarkgriswold White Belt

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    My instructor generally sticks to more basic stuff when rolling me, and often even lets submissions go to keep rolling I think. He almost always gives me pointers after each time he taps me, whether it be about positioning or defense from a little while back, or about how he just got me. Occasionally he'll even pause right during rolling to discuss what's going on and what he's observing about my game or lack thereof to offer something helpful.

    I have heard several stories about instructor(s) being opposite to that. I don't get it. I figure the intructor should really be focussed on improving you and taking pride in your improvement. I understand the above point that I guess instructors need to improve too and work on develping/perfecting certain techniques, but it seems to me that there should be a better way than consistently beating up on the white belts.
     
  9. Inge T

    Inge T I upload things

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    Well, I train gi MMA, so I don't think we have anyone besides the instructor (who is a 2nd degree black belt in JJ) good enough to be a BJJ blue belt.

    And ya, I also think he's chosen me to try out new techniques since I'm one of few of the rookies who tries to be aggressive, works for submissions and doesn't tap unless I'm caught in something. I feel like a sitting duck, though - throw any submission my way and I'll be tapping; that doesn't show much about whether he performed the move correct or set it up well. I don't mind getting beat up, but I feel there are better ways to learn.

    Also, in case anyone's wondering - my instructor is about my size (a few inches shorter, same weight), but freakishly fast and strong, so it's not like he needs to prove technique over strength or anything like that. I'm also extremely humble, so there's no attitude problem that needs to be cared of.
     
  10. rfrankb4

    rfrankb4 Blue Belt

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    most of the time my much smaller instructor simply lets me work position gives me little stuff and corrects my technique. However some days he will tap me so fast i dont konw what to do :p. The one time i dont think he held to much back he must have tapped me 15-20 times in a 7 min session. I guess he just wanted to show me what he could do or work on his own technique and thats cool sometimes but it would get highly frustrating if it was every time.

    Now there is one purple belt at our shool that only comes to the gi class to get a ego boost. He is a 3 stripepurple and a long time judo black belt so he is very good and is a large guy as well. When i have to roll with him he gets prety uch whatever he wants and i wouldnt mind that but he sinks everything in so hard and fast I end up hurt about every time i roll with him. Last time 3 weeks ago both arms got hyperextended and stil hurt n the mornings to stretch out.
     
  11. dutchmasterj3

    dutchmasterj3 Blue Belt

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    I wouldn't worry about it Inge. You'll learn to defend yourself eventually. Many instructors roll differently with people. Ive had instructors who almost roll nice with you to help you learn a little bit more. Then I've had others that just simply maul you 100% of the time.
     
  12. vanguard_anon

    vanguard_anon Clever user title

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    Sometimes my instructor works on new skills, especially on the takedown. Other times he does what I call "rewarding for good behavior". If I pass his guard with perfect technique he'll allow it. If not, he'll triangle me (or whatever).

    He might take side control and stop. I mentally process his position, get the underhooks, and establish the guard. If I do it correctly, he'll allow it. If not, he'll make it fail and probably make fun of me in the process. :)
     
  13. Mark Allen

    Mark Allen Enforcer

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    Well said.
    when rolling with the guys, I use what I have taught them, nothing else, well OK on exception something out of the private stock. But the student gets far more growth IMHO if he is understanding what is being used on him. He is familiar with the technique and doesnt just find himself caught in some ungodly submission that he never knew was coming.
     
  14. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    My instructor likes to try out new stuff on me, especially sweeps or alternatives to it, because I've got a very solid base. Most times, I find that after he gets something, it winds up being the technique he teaches us at the beginning of class.

    He's had his brown for a couple years, so he needs to keep his skills polished so he can get the black. I'm a blue belt, and he encourages me to try new things on the whites, so I think that all makes sense. If you try new stuff on guys your own level, it'll just get shut down. If you try new stuff on guys beneath you, you get to learn the ins and outs, then you work it into your game against others.

    That said, there's a difference between beating up your students and working advanced technique on them.

    I love the sommersault lapel choke. We had a purple teaching class the other day while our instructor was out of town, and he taught us scads of kinky shit like that. I've made use of all of them vs. the white belts, but then I always take the time after to show them how to do it. Last week, I saw a couple of them hitting them on each other. It works, if it's done right.
     
  15. Inge T

    Inge T I upload things

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    Well, today he tapped me with a guilliotine choke and some kind of full nelson from back mount, both due to me making horrible mistakes. He was obviously just taking it easy with me as I was horribly winded and as he had already owned me bad in the stand-up sparring prior to the grappling.

    On a side note, the other students went for lots of straight leglocks on me today (so I guess I kinda give away leglocks), but I had done my homework and was never even close to tapping. It's damn nice to notice that studying at home pays off. Any quick advice on how to avoid giving away leglocks would be highly appreciated, though.

    I also got ground'n'pounded from mount for the first time today. Very interesting experience.
     
  16. ichimonji

    ichimonji Blue Belt

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    you can take that to mean two things ....

    white belts are for blues to practice techniques on. blue belts are for everyone else is the school to trash. purple belts is your time to heal from all the injuries from blue, brown and black is about perfecting your technique.

    I feel there is nothing wrong with a black belt rolling and using complex techs on a blue. If he is using them on a white it means he doesnt have blues and above to work on or ... as a white belt he thinks you have good potential.

    Ill share a little story about a black belt friend of mine. He is older, larger, stronger, and trained longer than I. But we trained together for like 5 years. He used to Joke about the fact that I would never tap him. one day somehow ( he must have been playing) I took his back, I locked in one of my chokes. True to his word he did not tap, he convulsed, he spat up, he went unconscious but he never tapped. He always tells people about me choking him out, but I always try to act very humble.

    Now when ever we spar, he goes 110% at me. He is now a black and I a old blue ..but he goes all out. Sometimes people say, wow why does he go so hard on Ichimonji .... I just chalk it down to respect. He knows I now have the power to affect some technique, now he will fight me with respect and trash me becasue he knows I am capable.

    you might consider that your instructor believes in you enough to be capable of defending such a position or learning the submission by it being applied upon you. or maybe hes just a dick .... you decide.
     
  17. minimagpro

    minimagpro Purple Belt

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    i would rather get tapped by insane gi chokes and such simply because that lets me know that im defending the basics correctly

    i learn so much when rolling with my instructor because he doesnt whoop my ass everytime we roll like most do
     
  18. LCDforMe

    LCDforMe Purple Belt

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    lol, the other day my coach made fun of me. I had gone for a cart wheel pass but slipped on the mat and I must have looked like an idiot because he was just cracking up. In fact...I know I looked like an idiot.
     
  19. DMcKayBJJ

    DMcKayBJJ Blue Belt

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    In short, I like my instructor because he has a nice balance of sometimes rolling "nice and basic" but sometimes rolling "hard and advanced."

    As a white belt, it definitely helps when he takes it easy on me, so that I can practice my own techniques and strategy and not just get my ass kicked repeatedly. If he didn't, I'm not sure I'd want to come back just for ass-whoopings. I can also totally tell when he's taking it easy...he's so relaxed and just hanging out. It constantly reminds me to relax and work on technique with my BJJ, instead of being a spaz and trying to muscle everything (which is what usually happens when I'm rolling with other white belts)...

    However, just when I'm getting comfortable and confident, he'll pull something way advanced and hand my ass to me. It's a good thing, though, because it reminds me that I have a LOT to learn. It also shows that he respects my athletic ability, my ability to "handle" a beating, and my desire to learn BJJ, whether the basics or the advanced stuff. IMHO, I'd rather see something advanced at least once, even if I don't know how to do it, than have an instructor who keeps saying, "I don't even want you to see THIS technique because it's way too much for you."

    Ultimately, you only get better by rolling with people better than you. Basics are great and important, but so is thinking outside the box and being creative. My training has improved leaps and bounds by getting my ass kicked routinely by an instructor who knows when to chill and when to kick into high gear. Rolling with other white belts has thus become "easy", relatively speaking.
     
  20. Foppa21

    Foppa21 Black Belt

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    Depends on his mood!

    He could tap me out whenever. Usually he'll let me work positiona d try what I've learnt during the day. But he'll usually throw in something fancy during the roll.

    If he really wants to torture me, he'll go with the "I'm not going to put him in a position to tap". So he'll just work position position position. Making the little changes and making me work to maintain and improve the position I'm in. That usually gets me gassed even though I'm not spazzing or moving that much. It's jsut the constant changes that gets to me.
     

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