Grand Jury report on Catholic Church sex abuse in Pennsylvania

It's easy for me, I did say semi Catholic.

My interest is primarily in the area of contemplative consciousness and the contemplative tradition of Christianity which has been preserved, promoted and perfected within monastic and convent walls. It is the particular form of spirituality that has been handed down in a chain of dicipleship from the earliest days of Christianity that I find compelling.

This cannot be divorced from theology BUT there is more leeway when you approach it this way.

Sitting alone in a monastic cell having ecstatic, mystical experiences isn't what's difficult about following the teachings of Jesus. In fact, such a pursuit is not even a peripheral focus of the teachings of Jesus.
 
Ok so now you have made a coherent post and did not bring up headhunting and Hitler. Good for you man.

If you have some evidence based study to support your position that celibacy causes pedophilia I want to hear it. Sincerely. That would change my position. I just have not found anything like that and I've looked into it.

Who says celibacy = pedophilia? Did I? I was responding to the train of thought: what are the benefits of religious celibacy. Which in turn is the very opposite of what Paul wrote (and remember, Paul nearly wrote half of the new testament):

1 Timothy 3:2-5
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Then when somebody told you they have negative feelings about your religious/spiritual celibacy, you respond that you don't feel sorry for him but rather you accept different ways of living. Then comes the telling part: you wrote live and let live, which implies that you let others live their lifestyles while you live your own, we should do the same. When these shitty things happen (pedophilic rape) happens, and catholic celibacy and the institution protects it, we just have to live and let live? Fuck no.

When your personal case empowers the validity of religious celibacy (in which it is spirituality-building) it also is being used by the catholic church as cover for their authority, which in turn is used by pedos who join the priesthood, we just live and let live? Fuck no.
 
Probably because we're talking about different things?

Child rapist whether Catholic or Muslim should be treated the same.

Princes and paupers must be punished the same. A poor-ass muslim will get different treatment vs an influential imam. So is with your run-of-the-mill pedo vs your parish priestbear. If all of them gets their head cut off, that's great justice.
 
Sitting alone in a monastic cell having ecstatic, mystical experiences isn't what's difficult about following the teachings of Jesus. In fact, such a pursuit is not even a peripheral focus of the teachings of Jesus.


That is the kind of statement that I think is quite ignorant and framed unfairly but there is.nothing I detest more than arguing back and forth on the internet about Christianity. Have at but not with me. @babycart
 
I as a devout Catholic think these Bishops and Cardinals shpuld be stripped of all they have and laicized. Then turned over to the authorities.
They are still just giving out platutudes for these horrible crimes and also in most cases guilty of hiding these crimes. Our seminaries are run by homsexual pedophiles who promote their own and any man who is hetrosexual, orthodox or shows an affinity for the Traditional mass is blackballed which makes it extremely difficult for them to get through the process to become a priest.
In earlier threads on "Pope" Francis where liberal Catholics and non Catholics a like fawned at his liberal agenda which included near if not heretical things. I pointed out that he was responsible for getting rid of the supposed "Nazi" Benedict's rules for handling abuse reports. Fancis made it easier to hide the pedophiles. He also promoted and hid known pedophiles.
Francis has also been mighty silent bout the victims , perhaps he could pretend they are refugees. Then he would speak in emotional and tearful pleas for help and reform.
They need to Bring it all down from top and start new with the clergy. Do away with Vatican II, and return to Tradition. The old mass the cathechism of Trent and finally capital punishment for these dirtbags.
 
As a semi Catholic I support the church getting burned down in the media and in the court of law. Many people are leaving the church over this widespread scandal. I don't blame them. The more consequences the better.

However as a follower of Catholic theology and especially the unbroken chain of saints from the time of Christ to the present I hope the church survives this scandal.

That some priests turned out to be pedophiles is not that shocking as all large organizations that deal with children attract them. Even the act of ignoring or covering sexual abuse up seems to be hardwired into humanities system. Families do it too.

For a religious organization to cover this up though is doubly sinful disgusting and wrong. They should face harsher consequences than others IMO.
These are essentially my thoughts and feelings as well. I welcome the skewering that the church will experience in the media specifically because I want change. I want to remove this stain from Catholicism, and that can only be achieved through bringing everything to light and punishing those responsible. That being said, there are incredibly positive aspects to Catholicism as well. Global charitable organizations, and a faith that can unite people from Asia to Africa to the Americas is positive, IMO, so I would prefer the leadership to be replaced and the positive aspects to continue.
 
On the other hand, I respect your courage and conviction, as a Catholic, given that you're willing to participate in back and forth in a thread that is this hostile to your church.

Unlike @Devout Pessimist

What is there to discuss? The pedophiles plaguing the church are evil fucks and should be rounded up and brutally executed. It is absolutely sickening how this filth is not being dealt with properly. The Catholic Church simply needs to open its doors and allow the proper authorities to round up the pedophiles so they can send them all to hell.

It is unfortunate more people are not as enthusiastic about condemning Hollywood's pedophilia problem as they are when it comes to condemning the church. Pedophilia is not only a problem in the Catholic Church and pedophiles should be taken down with extreme prejudice when they are caught.
 
That is the kind of statement that I think is quite ignorant and framed unfairly but there is.nothing I detest more than arguing back and forth on the internet about Christianity. Have at but not with me. @babycart

Why? When you claim to be a Christian yet support anti-Christian practices, is your claim still valid? To be able to speak as an authority on celibacy, which in turn hinges on your connection to Christianity via Catholicism, then disproved by the biblical scriptures itself, now you hate debating about Christianity? What then gives you the credibility to your claim that celibacy is connected to 'deep spirituality'? Your personal anecdote?

BTW, I didn't post what you quoted, but since you mentioned me, here I am.
 
I as a devout Catholic think these Bishops and Cardinals shpuld be stripped of all they have and laicized. Then turned over to the authorities.
They are still just giving out platutudes for these horrible crimes and also in most cases guilty of hiding these crimes. Our seminaries are run by homsexual pedophiles who promote their own and any man who is hetrosexual, orthodox or shows an affinity for the Traditional mass is blackballed which makes it extremely difficult for them to get through the process to become a priest.
In earlier threads on "Pope" Francis where liberal Catholics and non Catholics a like fawned at his liberal agenda which included near if not heretical things. I pointed out that he was responsible for getting rid of the supposed "Nazi" Benedict's rules for handling abuse reports. Fancis made it easier to hide the pedophiles. He also promoted and hid known pedophiles.
Francis has also been mighty silent bout the victims , perhaps he could pretend they are refugees. Then he would speak in emotional and tearful pleas for help and reform.
They need to Bring it all down from top and start new with the clergy. Do away with Vatican II, and return to Tradition. The old mass the cathechism of Trent and finally capital punishment for these dirtbags.

What is there to discuss? The pedophiles plaguing the church are evil fucks and should be rounded up and brutally executed. It is absolutely sickening how this filth is not being dealt with properly. The Catholic Church simply needs to open its doors and allow the proper authorities to round up the pedophiles so they can send them all to hell.

It is too bad more people were not as enthusiastic about condemning Hollywood's pedophilia problem as they are when it comes to condemning the church. Pedophilia is not only a problem in the Catholic Church.

Is Vatican's current drive against death penalty the last ditch effort to save their priestbears? I mean, if no dp, these sick fucks only languishes in jail and can still obtain covert privileges due to their connection to the church.
 
Is Vatican's current drive against death penalty the last ditch effort to save their priestbears? I mean, if no dp, these sick fucks only languishes in jail and can still obtain covert privileges due to their connection to the church.

Pope Francis made a big mistake. I completely disagree with him when he says there is no justification for the death penalty. Executing pedophiles is justified in my opinion, but Francis wants to abolish that option at a time when pedophiles are destroying the Catholic Church and need to be made an example of.
 
What is there to discuss? The pedophiles plaguing the church are evil fucks and should be rounded up and brutally executed. It is absolutely sickening how this filth is not being dealt with properly. The Catholic Church simply needs to open its doors and allow the proper authorities to round up the pedophiles so they can send them all to hell.

Until you are willing to condemn the institution itself, the enabler of the pedophile priests, your rhetoric is hollow.
 
It has nothing to do with being gay, but I agree the Church should allow clergy to marry.

I think it does

Homosexuality is a cardinal sin, so what’s the best way to take out homosexual urges n not get caught?

Become a priest

Notice all those guys are after lil boys
 
Pope Francis made a big mistake. I completely disagree with him when he says there is no justification for the death penalty. Executing pedophiles is justified in my opinion, but Francis wants to abolish that option at a time when pedophiles are destroying the Catholic Church and need to be made an example of.

He cannot allow that to happen. If priestbears were executed, who'll have the balls to join the priesthood? The balls of priestbears (and prospective priestbears) are too small already, the dp will just scare the shit out of them, literally.
 
What is there to discuss? The pedophiles plaguing the church are evil fucks and should be rounded up and brutally executed. It is absolutely sickening how this filth is not being dealt with properly. The Catholic Church simply needs to open its doors and allow the proper authorities to round up the pedophiles so they can send them all to hell.

It is unfortunate more people are not as enthusiastic about condemning Hollywood's pedophilia problem as they are when it comes to condemning the church. Pedophilia is not only a problem in the Catholic Church and pedophiles should be taken down with extreme prejudice when they are caught.

As a Catholic I second this.
 
Is Vatican's current drive against death penalty the last ditch effort to save their priestbears? I mean, if no dp, these sick fucks only languishes in jail and can still obtain covert privileges due to their connection to the church.

When’s the last time someone got executed for pedophilia in western world?
 
Until you are willing to condemn the institution itself, the enabler of the pedophile priests, your rhetoric is hollow.

I will not condemn the entire Catholic Church. I will condemn the corruption, perversions and wrongdoings that will always plague the church because it is a flawed institution created by fallen human beings. There is no doubt pedophilia and sexual abuse is a serious problem with the Catholic Church at the moment, but I have hope that the church will eventually steer the ship straight and deal with this problem.

The Church comprises of almost 1.3 billion people and has been around for 2000 years. There has been and always will be serious issues with people involved with the Church. There is nothing in Church teaching even comes close to enabling pedophilia. Those who participate and enable pedophilia and sexual abuse are going against Catholic Church teaching.

Catechism of the Catholic Chruch:

Offenses against chastity

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

2355 Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. The one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit.140 Prostitution is a social scourge. It usually involves women, but also men, children, and adolescents (The latter two cases involve the added sin of scandal.). While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure.

2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
 
After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority,and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Vatican the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of pedos, a prison for every abused choirboy, and a cage full of cover-ups! For all the nations have their little boys drink of the wine of priestly fornication, the kings of the earth have allowed the cover-up of priestly fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
 
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