Got smashed by a Judoka

[blanko]

judogido,

A very traditional way to grade is by lining up against a bunch of browns then beating them all.There are many countries that do it this way.

but what if the guy is a great wrestler and usues wresting techniques rather than judo ones to beat them? He is not "using judo"... does he still get promoted?

 

[Commissar]

I honestly believe that if I fought him a few more times I could take him, but, then again... it might be the balls talking.

Haha

You think, with a few tries, you could beat a Judo black belt with 2 months of BJJ, and maybe a little bit of basement wrestling?

Breaking news! You won't.

In hindsight, you can think of different escapes you could have done. But if you sparred him again, he'd do something different. He tooled you. Live with it.

Good job though. A competition after 2 months is admirable.

 

[Foolkiller]

It depends where you are.

A very traditional way to grade is by lining up against a bunch of browns then beating them all.There are many countries that do it this way.

In Australia (NSW at least) we dont do this, although there was a rumble in the air that it might happen sometime this year.

In Australia you must get 150 points in competition PLUS minimum time in grade, THEN do a knowledge test + kata at a scheduled "dan grading" where senior dan grades (ie; not just at club level) assess you. This grading takes about 3-4 hours.

Comp points are: 7 via ippon vs blue, 10 via ippon against brown, 15 via ippon against 1D black etc.

In VERY exceptional circumstances someone will be awarded their Dan out of the blue but I've also never ever heard of it happen - it's one oth those "in theory it could happen" things. I HAVE heard of a Brown being given by a coach after truly exceptional performance in competitions.

The Budokwai is very traditional.

http://www.budokwai.org/

Go watch the video on the index page, it won't let me link to it.

 

[Commissar]

The irony is the friend I was talking about got to fill in for another grappler in the North American Abu Dhabi qualifier and got beat by technical (not sure what its called in sub grappling) decision by shaolin.

Whats his name?

 

[judogido]

judogido,
but what if the guy is a great wrestler and usues wresting techniques rather than judo ones to beat them? He is not "using judo"... does he still get promoted?

I'm not entirely sure, because gradings arent run this way in my area.

I think that as long as the techniques are "legal" you can do whatever you want. Having said that, I dont think you can just rock up to a grading and say "I wanna fight" & they'll just let you. I think you have to get to brown first to qualify.

I think that scenario only applies if you kick butt in a competition. I guess the idea is if no other brown can beat you, you must be a dan grade - but again, the gradings dont go this way in my area so I am not talking with much experience.

Here you dont skip grades unless you are TRULY exceptional, to to skip to brown you must be really good, to get to black from nil you must be some fan-freaking-tastic giant killer.

 

[QingTian]

if you're that fantastic of a wrestler, surely you are worthy of a mere 1st dan out of 10...

but I wouldn't think it'd be too easy to defeat a lineup playing by someone else's rules and wearing someone else's jacket.

 

[Bubble Boy]

Hey Cardio, can you confirm if you were fighting in an OPEN division, white belt division, or what? I'm still curious about that...

 

[DMcKayBJJ]

That sounds completely reasonable to me. But the guy just whooping everybody on the mat and then getting handed his black belt would be very, very rare indeed. Would it happen in BJJ? i.e. a Judoka or Sambo guy comes in and taps all the black belts (pretend with me here guys). Honest question: think he'd be handed his BJJ black belt?

IMO, no.
Why? Because in BJJ, there still is a sort of "pay your dues and do your time" aspect to getting a higher belt. AND, he would have to receive his black belt from an established BJJ black who is willing to put his OWN reputation on the line in giving this hypothetical supergrappler a black belt in one day.
I don't think there are ANY BJJ Black Belts who'd be willing to do that. They'd at least want to get to know the guy better and train with him for a while before deciding that he was truly worthy of getting the black belt. It would be very easy to say, "Well...maybe he just got lucky that one day. But if he keeps doing it over and over in the next several days..."

There's not one BJJ Black Belt who would be blamed for waiting a while before giving Mr. Supergrappler a black belt. Conversely, you'd be the laughingstock of the BJJ world if you gave him the black based on a one-day performance and later he showed that he really DIDN'T deserve it.

 

[Sauron]

I thought a brown belt line up was the usual method used to test a person for their black belt.

It may not be an everyday occurence but clearly it does happen which is why it is inaccurate. There's another guy who recently got promoted from the same Carlson Gracie Team gym, also a BJJ purple, who got his judo BB in just over 3 years so again it can happen.

Personally i think it's a cheap way to get your BB, it's all fine and well to say they're a BB in judo but when it comes down to it they're not.

I saw this vid of a guy called simon and all he did in his grading was try tomenage and then instantly go for armbars and it was the most pathetic thing i've ever seen. Sure he won by 4-5 ippons against brown belts but it was all submissions and hold downs.

These are the kind of guys who will go nowhere on the national or international judo scene, it's a ornament for them.

 

[Sauron]

There's another guy who recently got promoted from the same Carlson Gracie Team gym, also a BJJ purple, who got his judo BB in just over 3 years so again it can happen.

I saw the video of his grading and it was incredibly pathetic, he was just another tomenage guard puller who then went for submissions. He got 4-5 ippons but all by submission and pin, personally i wouldn't want to get my black belt like that.

Personally if i was going to have a grading system i'd make each belt be worth points with higher rewards for throws - submissions - pins

white - 0
yellow - 15
orange - 35
green - 60
blue - 90
brown - 125
black - 220
2nd dan - can be obtained through services to the sport (reffing/logistics/organising etc)
3rd dan - only for those who have competed nationally/ internationally

10 points for a throw
5 points for a submission or pin
2 points for participating

+10 for a clean sweep via throws
+5 for a clean sweep of mixed ippons

I guess it wouldn't really be good for the recreational judoka but it would be good to actually determine standard. I know some people who go to gradings, lose every match and still get promoted.

And most of all you wouldn't be getting your BB in 2 years or on the day like superbeast pointed out. It would take years and many many gradings.

 

[John O'Brien]

Sandbagging at it's worst.

 

[knoxpk]

Commiser,
His name is Shane Dunn.
Really good grappler but he got beat pretty good vers Shaolin.
And when I say technical decision I mean the kind of mercy rule sub grappling has when one guy has a big lead ovfer another..
But in fairness he took the match on 2 days notice (he was filling in) and drove from Florida to NC for the experience.

 

[Cornsloth]

Makes me wonder if I'm ready for my black belt in Judo, I've got eight months of Jiu-Jitsu...

 

[Yozigi]

Makes me wonder if I'm ready for my black belt in Judo, I've got eight months of Jiu-Jitsu...

Hell no. I've practiced judo for ~10yrs. (last few years quite actively I mioght say, at the moment 7 times a week) and am aiming to get my brown next spring. I hate McDojo's that give away belts like candy. No, the belt itself doesn't mean a shit. It doesn't throw or armbar anyone for you. But McDojo's really do mix the "standards" between different countries and blur the line between a serious practitioner and someone who just does the sport for a hobby(Sorry for my bad English, I hope you understand what I mean).

 

[Shaldag]

iv been doing jiu jitsu for around a yr and just started training judo abt a month ago, iv found that the judo guys (bown and black belts) own me standing and when they pin me they can usually hold it. however they are suceptible (sp?) to alot of submission work, give their backs very freely, dont do very good against double/single legs and ankle picks, and they were weak at applying submissions. point being: train both
i know this is not exactly on topic, but it is kinda relevant.

 

[Cardio]

BONUS!: Very good discussion of Judo to Sub-Grappling here

This tournament in Abu Dhabi was, "The Second Emirates Cup for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu." Under Brazilian Jiu Jitsu rules, the tournament was open to any artist (Greco/Freestyle, Sub, Pro, Catch, Judo, Sambo, BJJ) at ANY level with the exception that the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu player could NOT be higher than a PURPLE.

There were 6 weight categories (under 65kg under 73kg under, 81 kg under 89kg under 97 kg over 97 kg) and an open weght (any weight) division. You could enter both the open AND your weight.

$1000 US prize for each weight and open weight ($500 runner up) best athelete and fastest submission.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Paricipants from over 25 different countries (incld. US, Brazil, Japan) at all skill levels competed.

The local JUDO guys from Abu Dhabi (UAE) cleaned house.
There is world class JUDO, WRESTLING and BJJ instruction in Abu Dhabi and I believe for the Judo guys, most have done some cross-training (The triangle he caught me in was too slick to believe otherwise). Your training options in Abu Dhabi are:

JUDO (here) Olympic Judokas.

WRESTLING: Very strong - from here u can fly to Russia to train.

BJJ: World Champion BB and Brazilian Top Team Coach Carlao Santos 3 BJJ Blackbelts from the Brazilian Top Team.

CROSSTRAIN!

 

[Cornsloth]

Hell no. I've practiced judo for ~10yrs. (last few years quite actively I mioght say, at the moment 7 times a week) and am aiming to get my brown next spring. I hate McDojo's that give away belts like candy. No, the belt itself doesn't mean a shit. It doesn't throw or armbar anyone for you. But McDojo's really do mix the "standards" between different countries and blur the line between a serious practitioner and someone who just does the sport for a hobby(Sorry for my bad English, I hope you understand what I mean).

Sorry, should have clarified more, I was quite joking...

 

[wOg]

This happens a lot these days with the growing number of grappling competitions. High ranking judo guys enter as white belts in BJJ comps and then win on throws and positional control. It's shitty and underhanded for them to not enter the blue belt category at least as they are obviously far from beginners at grappling but if they do not disclose their experience to the organisers of the competition then they won't get placed in an appropriate category and will unsurprisingly dominate new grapplers.

If you're a brown belt or better in judo, then I can't imagine what kind of satisfaction you'd get out of beating white belts in any style. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations!

 

[Sauron]

If you're a brown belt or better in judo, then I can't imagine what kind of satisfaction you'd get out of beating white belts in any style. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations!

a brown belt in judo can easily have the same experience level of a white belt in bjj

 

[Deleted member 10003]

This happens a lot these days with the growing number of grappling competitions. High ranking judo guys enter as white belts in BJJ comps and then win on throws and positional control. It's shitty and underhanded for them to not enter the blue belt category at least as they are obviously far from beginners at grappling but if they do not disclose their experience to the organisers of the competition then they won't get placed in an appropriate category and will unsurprisingly dominate new grapplers.

I agree. People who have good Judo and wrestling exeprience should at least start in blue. I don't understand why they would want to even fight in white. I still fight in blue, sometimes purple. If I win my division and there is a higher skill division there, I feel kind of shitty. Because there is a whole other division of people supposedly better than you. I guess not everyone competes to test themselves.