Good video and argument against Affirmative Action

[nac386]

Didn't that have something to do with busing in kids or something? I feel there's something left out of this story.

I don't know what topic pushed him in the direction of demographics, but further context would not change the statement he made. In the one-minute clip that was released, he was mourning the loss of the white majority in Arizona's public school's. He said the change in demographics (more Hispanics) was an existential threat to our country.

 

[nostradumbass]

first of all, the fact you would call a woman in a video who you don't know and is doing absolutely nothing to you a "bitch" is a reflection of your abhorrent character...i wish your mother, if you have one, would see your post, you bitch.

Now that we got that outta the way, affirmative action was absolutely intended to help poor blacks...its how many of the most successful blacks around today who come from disadvantaged backgrounds were able to rise up.

and mindy kaling's brother got into school based on his scores, as per the school administration...but he says while he posed as being black he was harrassed by the police, accused of shoplifting and had all kinds of issues with women...it's a miracle he survived long enough to attend medical school

If I have a mother? Nah, I just got beamed into existence. Sounds like you need all the race-based help you can get.

I could give a fuck what it was intended to do, I care about what it actually does.

hey, you dumb fuck, the dude got into school based on his original scores.

a Saint Louis University spokeswoman disputed the account, telling the Huffington Post that race never played a role in Chokal-Ingam's admission.
"His MCAT scores and science grade point average met SLU's criteria for admission at that time, and his race or ethnicity did not factor into his acceptance into the University," the website quoted SLU spokeswoman Nancy Solomon as saying.

Oh, the school didn't come out and say "we let him in because of race" while rejecting other Indians with similar qualifications when asked by the goddamn huffington post? Total shocker. I don't know why any of this should matter, since we already know the standards are different for Asians, hispanics, and blacks, and you're arguing in favor of it.

You've already made a fool of yourself in this thread because you're in favor of racism as long as it benefits you and lowers standards for yourself. Get fucked.

 

[Staph infection]

first of all, having a "higher test score" in that context doesn't mean being better qualified. so, no, they're not being discriminated against because of their skin color....they're being discriminated against because they're not the best fit for the job...has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the needs of the community.

So you admit they are at least being discriminated against but see nothing wrong with that? The US is a melting pot so a white officer in a predominantly black neighborhood should not be an issue. I am white and live in a predominantly white neighborhood. If I am stopped by a black police officer should I request a white officer because the black officer may not know the needs of a white community? If a job has a testing requirement those that test the highest should get the job. The purpose of the test is to ensure that the Most qualified people get hired.

 

[Seano]

I don't know what topic pushed him in the direction of demographics, but further context would not change the statement he made. In the one-minute clip that was released, he was mourning the loss of the white majority in Arizona's public school's. He said the change in demographics (more Hispanics) was an existential threat to our country.

I didn't really study that situation so I can't say if his comment was racist. Poor choice of words, no doubt, but I won't speak to his intent.

 

[nac386]

I didn't really study that situation so I can't say if his comment was racist. Poor choice of words, no doubt, but I won't speak to his intent.

Sometimes the words that somebody chooses reveal their intent. Not always of course, there are times when somebody is speaking off the cuff and they do not communicate the idea that they really meant to communicate. But I tend to think politicians have chosen their words for a reason, so I don't really give them much leeway.

This is actually perfectly related to what we talked about yesterday, regarding exactly what specific part of a statement draws the accusation of racism.

So, he came out and said he didn't mean to sound racist, and was just stating that it is a fact that 60% of the students are minorities and that changes in demographics have consequences. Sounds fine, right? After all, that's just objectively true that those are the numbers and demographics effect some things. But in his explanation, he completely ignored the part that actually bothered people, which is the part where he used the words "existential threat to our country" and said "there's not enough white kids to go around" even though they're still 40% of the population (which is way more than most minorities in most locations). Those two lines are the exact things that crazy white supremacists say. The old, they are replacing us, we have to stop them, thing.

If that is just him using a poor choice of words, then he must have been drunk or something.

 

[Falsedawn]

It also sends the message that minorities need help to accomplish what other people do.

Yeah, if we could just enslave all the white people for 300 years, we'd be on top.

 

[TownBiz]

what the hell???

so skin tone is a qualifier?

BAHAHAHAHAHA


duuuuuuuude.

guess what?

wait, you mean to tell me there's such a thing as racism?....in america?...wtf! when did that start? where'd it come from? who is responsible for this dastardly thing called racism, gawshdarnit?!

 

[TownBiz]

If I have a mother? Nah, I just got beamed into existence. Sounds like you need all the race-based help you can get.

I could give a fuck what it was intended to do, I care about what it actually does.



Oh, the school didn't come out and say "we let him in because of race" while rejecting other Indians with similar qualifications when asked by the goddamn huffington post? Total shocker. I don't know why any of this should matter, since we already know the standards are different for Asians, hispanics, and blacks, and you're arguing in favor of it.

You've already made a fool of yourself in this thread because you're in favor of racism as long as it benefits you and lowers standards for yourself. Get fucked.

you fuckin asshole...so you believe that piece of shit but you don't believe the huffington post?

since when does the word of a guy from india mean so much to you? aint you scared he'd blow you up?

it's racist scumbags like you who want to CONTINUE RACISM AND INEQUALITY who are against affirmative action...the status quo suits you fine because if you had to compete with that black woman in the video for a job or any of the thousands of black people who benefited from affirmative action, your ignorant mediocre white ass would be unemployed and broke. racism is your savior...without it you wouldn't have shit, so you gotta hold onto that racism for dear life...you fuckin loser.

 

[TownBiz]

Yeah, if we could just enslave all the white people for 300 years, we'd be on top.

don't you worry about that...it's coming.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

we had A LOTTA help from y'all getting on unequal footing to begin with...so, "helping" us is obviously not something that y'all have a problem with....what we're offended by is that y'all don't PAY us for all the work we did all them hundreds of years for free that y'all act like you're entitled to benefit from.

See, this is racist crap.

Who is y'all? Are you suggesting that all white people in the US are responsible for or profited from slavery? That's laughable and it was laughable in the mid 1800s. Why don't you try to develop a working historical understanding of American slavery and American immigration? It's more constructive than whining about "y'all" on the internet.

 

[panamaican]

As always a video that misunderstands the general points behind the larger conversation. Speaking purely in context of affirmative action and what it was originally designed to overcome - it was designed to combat government instituted obstructions. And those obstructions were racial in designation.

To have the conversation honestly, it has to be grounded in actual U.S. racial history. So, in the context of college admissions, that conversation has to start with how the government instituted policies that provided black neighborhoods with inferior lower level schools as a matter of intent. Then an understanding of how that impacts college admission opportunities. Followed by an exploration of if those effects are still in play. If has nothing to do with individual blacks or whites.

In the context of personal wealth, that conversation has to start with home ownership since that's where the majority of U.S. wealth is concentrated. Then there has to be an exploration of government instituted policies that intentionally impacted the housing market differently for blacks and whites. Then an understanding of how those policies impacted long term wealth acquisition. Followed by an exploration of if those effects are still in play. It has nothing to with individual blacks or whites.

We could repeat the process on many different subjects. Start with the original government policy, understand the impact, explore if the effects are still relevant. Then you can discuss what is or isn't actually happening. Jumping past that basic analysis always means that these conversations lack intellectual rigor.

 

[TownBiz]

As always a video that misunderstands the general points behind the larger conversation. Speaking purely in context of affirmative action and what it was originally designed to overcome - it was designed to combat government instituted obstructions. And those obstructions were racial in designation.

To have the conversation honestly, it has to be grounded in actual U.S. racial history. So, in the context of college admissions, that conversation has to start with how the government instituted policies that provided black neighborhoods with inferior lower level schools as a matter of intent. Then an understanding of how that impacts college admission opportunities. Followed by an exploration of if those effects are still in play. If has nothing to do with individual blacks or whites.

In the context of personal wealth, that conversation has to start with home ownership since that's where the majority of U.S. wealth is concentrated. Then there has to be an exploration of government instituted policies that intentionally impacted the housing market differently for blacks and whites. Then an understanding of how those policies impacted long term wealth acquisition. Followed by an exploration of if those effects are still in play. It has nothing to with individual blacks or whites.

We could repeat the process on many different subjects. Start with the original government policy, understand the impact, explore if the effects are still relevant. Then you can discuss what is or isn't actually happening. Jumping past that basic analysis always means that these conversations lack intellectual rigor.

i like what you have to say and you sound very well-informed and knowledgeable. however, you have to understand that this is a message board. the folks on this board are not interested in "exploring" anything...they are interested in ONE thing...that black folks are threatening their white privilege and affirmative action is the vehicle that makes that possible. that's because affirmative action provides opportunity blacks were historically denied. these people don't want blacks to have opportunity because they feel threatened by any leveling of the playing field.

as you probably know when fear is involved, any rational thought goes out the window....this is white people crying bloody murder because their status in society is being threatened and they have NO interest in any kind of rational discussion...they want to yell and cry and bawl about the pain of feeling that they might no longer have blacks to look down on...and for the average white guy, that's completely unacceptable.

 

[panamaican]

i like what you have to say and you sound very well-informed and knowledgeable. however, you have to understand that this is a message board. the folks on this board are not interested in "exploring" anything...they are interested in ONE thing...that black folks are threatening their white privilege and affirmative action is the vehicle that makes that possible. that's because affirmative action provides opportunity blacks were historically denied. these people don't want blacks to have opportunity because they feel threatened by any leveling of the playing field.

as you probably know when fear is involved, any rational thought goes out the window....this is white people crying bloody murder because their status in society is being threatened and they have NO interest in any kind of rational discussion...they want to yell and cry and bawl about the pain of feeling that they might no longer have blacks to look down on...and for the average white guy, that's completely unacceptable.

I don't think it has anything to do with fear. I think it's simply a lack of knowledge coupled with a lack of interest. Each subsequent generation is further removed from the era when such policies were commonplace and acceptable. So the impact of those policies is less overtly stark. That's the lack of knowledge. The lack of interest is that people don't necessarily care to explore the more complex components and thus reduce said conversations to the most superficial elements or to points that they've heard from other people, who might not be any more informed than them.

If there is any fear, it is about a perception of demographic changes and not a fear of losing white privilege. To fear the loss of something, you have to believe it to be real. And if someone doesn't believe white privilege is real, what they're fearing is not the perception of an uneven playing field becoming an even playing field but the perception of an even playing field shifting to an uneven one.

Even if you disagree with that perspective, you still have to be careful not to assign malicious intent absent proof thereof.

 

[TownBiz]

See, this is racist crap.

Who is y'all? Are you suggesting that all white people in the US are responsible for or profited from slavery? That's laughable and it was laughable in the mid 1800s. Why don't you try to develop a working historical understanding of American slavery and American immigration? It's more constructive than whining about "y'all" on the internet.

so, are you denying that white america benefited from hundreds of years of free black labor? are you telling me that the economy of the united states that benefited both poor and rich whites was NOT built on the enslavement of black people?

please tell me that's what you're saying, because i would love to show you many scholarly articles that prove you don't know wtf you're talking about and that that all whites in america, and NO blacks enjoyed the benefits of slavery.

...and that includes immigrant whites...i mean the stream of immigrants from europe didn't stop before, during or after slavery, but even today, white european immigrants, especially STILL enjoy greater benefits of american citizenship than blacks who have been here since before america as a republic was created.

 

[TownBiz]

I don't think it has anything to do with fear. I think it's simply a lack of knowledge coupled with a lack of interest. Each subsequent generation is further removed from the era when such policies were commonplace and acceptable. So the impact of those policies is less overtly stark. That's the lack of knowledge. The lack of interest is that people don't necessarily care to explore the more complex components and thus reduce said conversations to the most superficial elements or to points that they've heard from other people, who might not be any more informed than them.

If there is any fear, it is about a perception of demographic changes and not a fear of losing white privilege. To fear the loss of something, you have to believe it to be real. And if someone doesn't believe white privilege is real, what they're fearing is not the perception of an uneven playing field becoming an even playing field but the perception of an even playing field shifting to an uneven one.

Even if you disagree with that perspective, you still have to be careful not to assign malicious intent absent proof thereof.

well, of course i disagree with that perspective...and it's not that l lack proof...i've actually taken the time to learn about this issue and inform myself about the motives of white people who oppose affirmative action...there is a ton of literature, research material and empirical data, etc about this issue.

the reason is fear...that's just being honest.

white people are scared that they are losing their stronghold on political and economic and social power and prestige in america...and they're losing it to blacks, who they have all be raised to believe is an inferior race. when obama was elected and was doing his thing, the invectives, the white hot hate,etc...all that was not because they don't care or don't know about obama...it's because the very existence of a black president was anathema to the whole notion of white supremacy.

and please don't be dishonest...whites know damn well there's such a thing as white privilege...they ALL know it. they KNOW they won't get shot down in the street for walking home or running away or surrendering to the police...they KNOW they can commit a crime and blame a black man and there's a good chance they'll get off...or even if they don't get off, they won't get anything close to the sentence a black man will get for the same crime....they KNOW that even if ALL they have is a high school diploma, their chances of finding a job are better than a black man with a college degree...they can even do a shitty job, which a lotta them do and keep their job, whereas a black man will be held to the highest standard...just look at trump and obama.

but if they admit that there's such a thing as white privilege it makes them feel they didn't achieve shit on their own...like the one poster was saying it's offensive to feel like you need the help of somebody else to make it...and whites don't ever want to admit that they needed the "help" of black people in order to enjoy the status they do,so they downplay their privilege and act like they came from the bottom and now they here.

those are some of the reasons why whites in america do NOT want affirmative action...they don't want to be unemployed at the same rate of blacks...if they lose their status, then it might be THEM or their kids getting shot down walking home with nothing but a bag of skittles in their pockets....they know the deal.

the truth is, i don't blame whites for wanting to KEEP racial inequality...they got it good now. they know it, we know it...when shit starts to get hard for them, they start turning to opiates and committing suicide cause they can't handle the stress, lol. they BETTER fight to keep racial inequality in place, because i tell you right now, when the tables are turned is gonna be hell to pay.

 

[ultramanhyata]

however, affirmative action does not take away from white people. it only provides more opportunities for blacks.

University enrollment is, in fact, a zero sum game.

 

[TownBiz]

University enrollment is, in fact, a zero sum game.

no, what i mean is, there isn't just one set of criteria when it comes to university enrollment...so, the admission of a black student doesn't necessarily mean a white student was unfairly discriminated against, even if that white student got required SAT scores.

 

[bjpenngoat]

I voted trump, love what he's doing. I'm not a PC type at all and o consider myself a bit more.on the conservative side now that the left is a pile of finger pointing useless shit but I am totally for affirmative action. There is still a tremendous amount of racist sentiment in america and how likely is someone with an afro centric name going to get the call.before a tom Jones or Fred Smith to interview for a job? Unless its a black owned business or ultra liberal person, its not likely. I've seen it happen right before my eyes and I was disgusted by it. You can't walk a mile in a person of colors shoes ever if you are white. I hate that I have to support AA, but until stuff like that ceases to happen, I'm all for it.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

so, are you denying that white america benefited from hundreds of years of free black labor? are you telling me that the economy of the united states that benefited both poor and rich whites was NOT built on the enslavement of black people?

Yes. The agrarian South was backwards economically because slavery is a piss poor economic system. But slaves undercut untrained labor, so poor whites in the South did not benefit economically from slavery. If anything, it hurt them economically.

In the North, there was far greater commercial and industrial expansion due to free (or semi-free) labor.

NO blacks enjoyed the benefits of slavery.

False. Obviously the blacks in Africa who sold most of the slaves benefited from the sale of those slaves to traders heading for the Americas. And very few but more than zero, blacks in the Americas owned slaves.

 

[ultramanhyata]

no, what i mean is, there isn't just one set of criteria when it comes to university enrollment...so, the admission of a black student doesn't necessarily mean a white student was unfairly discriminated against, even if that white student got required SAT scores.

What would be the point of Affirmative Action enrollment policies if there was no need to tip the scales in favor of people of color?

AA is like the social version of golf handicapping. I just think its proponents need to be honest about that.