Going 100% on neckcranks in sparring

[cms9690]

Sparring partner put me in a wicked "Can Opener" neck crank a few nights ago and I'm still pretty sore from it. I don't mind when I'm being submitted, but it kind of felt like he went 100% force on the neckcrank instantly rather than applying pressure moderately so I have enough time to at least tap before it hurts.

A little background
Since my last thread, all I do is lighter rolling because I want to improve my technique rather than muscling my way through everything, so I really don't think I was being rough and/or pulling dick moves on him.. (Who knows, maybe I was and he felt justified in his actions)

I'm quite green with submission grappling (two months in) and he's been at it a bit longer (closer to a year longer, if I remember correctly).

Nice guy and everything, but I felt like it was a dick move. In the opinion of you Sherdogger's, do you go along with aggressive submissions like this during sparring or do you step in and say something?

 

[TheSubmissionCh]

There is a difference between trying to tap someone and trying to injure/maim someone. I don't roll with anyone that is committed to performing the latter. It's alright if you hurt me, although I do not appreciate it, but when you try to INJURE (note: there is a big difference hurt v. injure), then we cannot train. Ever. Don't talk to me either. We're not teammates, but are simply on the same team (note the difference there as well). - E

 

[redaxe]

Just tap and get on with your life.

Next time, just post your hands on his chin and he won't be able to finish the can opener.

 

[fry_ed]

Next time counter it by simply clinching him back (mirror what he is doing to do). It will relieve the pressure.

Most would classify the following behavior as dickish:
1) your training partner attempts a technique on you that is not allowed in your gym (I don't know about can openers in your situation)
2) your partner doesn't give you time to tap

Both of these will happen in your bjj career.

Whether you are justified in being upset about them depends on many factors. Although both #1 and #2 have happened to me a few times in my 5 years of training, I've never been upset about it.

However, I've been fortunate enough not to have both #1 and #2 happen at the same time (e.x. illegal neck crank + no time to tap) !

 

[Funkoar]

I don't say anything, I always tell myself every time I go to practice I am risking getting hurt.

It's the chance I take, and I guess I am used to guys who sit out the first 5 rounds and then try and rip my head off.

 

[Bojovnik Slav]

If he did it intentionally to hurt you then he's worthy of payback. Grind your forearm hard against his jaw if you end up in his guard or if you get his back stick the boney section of the inside of your wrist between his eyes and clasp the outside of that hind with your other hand, basically like you are doing a short choke. If he ends up in your guard pull his head down and rest one of his cheek bones against your knee while locking your hands behind his head, bridge your hips high driving that knee into his cheek bone and pull down hard with your hands, makes for a very nasty submission. If he turtles up from his side apply your elbow just to the outside of his spine(basically the muscle around the spine), it's a wake call and he'll pop his head up quick for you to get the choke. Once again I mean these only to deal with assholes who intend to cause others damage. There's a difference between going hard to learn and going hard to hurt.

 

[RemyR]

Going 100% on a neck crank is a huge dick move IMO, but also I really don't think you should be tapping to a can opener unless the guy is much stronger than you. Open your guard, put your hands on his chin, etc.

 

[Grapplingwizard**]

This one guy always does dirty things like grinding his knee on my face while he's in side control or putting his foot on my face when he is doing an armbar. I ignored it the first couple times we rolled, but then I had enough. I am a BIG leglock guy but i didn't leglock him cause I wanted to focus more on guard passing and areas where I wasn't very good so he was getting the better of me. He was happy that he was tapping me out and i could see how he was so happy when he was in the gym from talking to people to going to the bathroom because he tapped me a couple of times. Well the next day I came to put him in his place. I heel hooked him 3 times, toe hold once, and a knee bar once in 1 class (2 4 min rolling sessions). He was a lot quieter and was not as "happy" as he was before. When he was beating me, when we were leaving he would say "See ya man, good roll tonight and great job". Well that night I said bye to him and he didn't respond. He just walked out and looked very down. By the way I am not trying to brag like some other sherdoggers do by making posts like these. I am just giving my story of how I dealt with this fucking moron. Besides this is like a year old and I don't really care about beating some scrub. He came a couple classes after that night and I haven't seen him since.

 

[Funkoar]

This one guy always does dirty things like grinding his knee on my face while he's in side control or putting his foot on my face when he is doing an armbar. I ignored it the first couple times we rolled, but then I had enough. I am a BIG leglock guy but i didn't leglock him cause I wanted to focus more on guard passing and areas where I wasn't very good so he was getting the better of me. He was happy that he was tapping me out and i could see how he was so happy when he was in the gym from talking to people to going to the bathroom because he tapped me a couple of times. Well the next day I came to put him in his place. I heel hooked him 3 times, toe hold once, and a knee bar once in 1 class (2 4 min rolling sessions). He was a lot quieter and was not as "happy" as he was before. When he was beating me, when we were leaving he would say "See ya man, good roll tonight and great job". Well that night I said bye to him and he didn't respond. He just walked out and looked very down. By the way I am not trying to brag like some other sherdoggers do by making posts like these. I am just giving my story of how I dealt with this fucking moron. Besides this is like a year old and I don't really care about beating some scrub. He came a couple classes after that night and I haven't seen him since.

I've been in this type of situation before. Had a guy who claimed to be a self trained street fighter, he proceeded to do dirty tactics when we rolled. I eventually had enough and continued to sub him until he mentally broke.

I have seen loads of guys come and do 1 lesson and it seems they just want to hurt people, they have this aggression they want to take out and try to get away with it in a legal place. They are soon put in place and disappear forever.

 

[Grapplingwizard**]

I've been in this type of situation before. Had a guy who claimed to be a self trained street fighter, he proceeded to do dirty tactics when we rolled. I eventually had enough and continued to sub him until he mentally broke.

I have seen loads of guys come and do 1 lesson and it seems they just want to hurt people, they have this aggression they want to take out and try to get away with it in a legal place. They are soon put in place and disappear forever.

Yeah. Who knows where they go after they leave. Probably behind bars.

 

[The Apostle]

If he's been training for a year I'm almost certain he knows better.

Come on man, think back. Hard. Did you do anything that could have made him seek some payback? I'm betting there was something.

I would never intentionally hurt someone but I do provide some payback if need be.

This one time, at band camp...

Seriously though. One time I was rolling with a dude who thought I purposely tried to hurt him while falling back for an arm bar. He screamed loudly before I even got like halfway back. I let go but I think since he screamed and everyone stopped - coaches, students, bystanders, - he had to go with it. Cradled his arm and nursed it, lowered his head, brushed off the instructors. Then like 30 seconds later he was fully recovered and ready, and raring, to go.

We tap hands and start. After a little bit he gets me in an arm bar and proceeds to full on ADCC/IBJJF/NCAA championship style rip it back. Grunting and straining as he is trying to pay me back and truly hurt my arm.

I don't tap because I feel like I can get out. I kind of allow people to fall back for that arm and then wait to do that roll out/leg drag counter to where you end up in side control. As I did that, he realized it. He saw I was about to come out on top.

He held that sleeve grip as tightly as he could between his legs as he was losing the arm. He knew as soon as he let it go, I was coming around.

I waited and fought that grip, I had my left arm cradling his head, waited some more. I would look at the clock. I started telling him "don't let that grip go. Uh-oh it's almost out. Don't let me get on top of you after doing that to me." Stuff like that. It was awesome, I'm smiling as I type it.

As soon as he couldn't hold it anymore and had to let go, he kind of resigned himself to it. I got in side control and made him pay. Dearly. Forearm fully across the throat. Cross faces from hell, shoulder pressure - I was trying to drive his chin to touch the mat. We haven't rolled since, this was about 18 months ago. Don't think we've even really spoken since.

Long reply but yeah. You probably did something.

 

[Dogstarman]

Can opener is stupid. You should get the arm bar from the can opener. Dude is exposing his arms big time. Next time go for the arm bar from guard.

 

[Allan san]

man, i had a spazz 'muscle man' roll with me 2 weeks ago. his first submission attempt was a rear naked choked across my eyes. it pissed me off, but i just told him he is just squeezing my head. his second attempt was a movie-style neck break. he put one hand on my chin and the other on the crown of my head and started twisting. i stopped him and told him no neck cranks. i then proceeded to accidentally put my knee on his balls every knee slide guard pass.

 

[jclaudevandamme]

Can opener is stupid. You should get the arm bar from the can opener. Dude is exposing his arms big time. Next time go for the arm bar from guard.

Condit is a professional fighter and way more skillful than TS but still couldn't get the armbar

 

[Dogstarman]

Condit is a professional fighter and way more skillful than TS but still couldn't get the armbar

Yes, but I doubt that the guy who TS was grappling with was on GSP's level. There is a big difference between rolling with a professional fighter and an insurance rep from All-state.

There used to be an old guy who would always come to class and as soon as he got into guard he would go for the can opener. I drilled and drilled the armbar from the can opener just for this old bastard. Every time he did it after that I caught him with the armbar.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

Condit is a professional fighter and way more skillful than TS but still couldn't get the armbar

Jon Jones is a once-in-a-generation fighting genius, but he still got his arm near broken for doing it.

 

[Gawd]

If he did it intentionally to hurt you then he's worthy of payback. Grind your forearm hard against his jaw if you end up in his guard or if you get his back stick the boney section of the inside of your wrist between his eyes and clasp the outside of that hind with your other hand, basically like you are doing a short choke. If he ends up in your guard pull his head down and rest one of his cheek bones against your knee while locking your hands behind his head, bridge your hips high driving that knee into his cheek bone and pull down hard with your hands, makes for a very nasty submission. If he turtles up from his side apply your elbow just to the outside of his spine(basically the muscle around the spine), it's a wake call and he'll pop his head up quick for you to get the choke. Once again I mean these only to deal with assholes who intend to cause others damage. There's a difference between going hard to learn and going hard to hurt.

Thank you. I will try this out on our more accomplished black belts...

...and then prepare myself for blissful death.

 

[DVD review guy]

the can-opener is an asshole move:icon_evil

 

[cms9690]

Just tap and get on with your life.

It's not the idea of tapping, it's the idea of not even giving enough time for a tap to happen. It's sparring, not an IBJJF championship match.

Long reply but yeah. You probably did something.

It's possible.



--Thanks for the input though everyone. I wasn't too upset about it, but I did think it was a dick move. Like I said, he's a nice guy so I'm not too worried, just wanted some input.

Happy Holidays.

 

[pesadissimo]

I had a noob try this when I visited my old gym last year (I moved away, but still friendly with my old coach). I tapped the first time to avoid both injury and drama. We slapped hands and he went for it again...instant double armbar. Then I went knee on belly for the rest of the round. Got a couple of taps from pressure too lol.

But I hurt for a few weeks afterward. My chiro made out good.