GGG vs Canelo = Robbery of the year candidate?

[lfd0311]

I think it's that they don't understand that there isn't just one way to box. Some guys are pressure fighters, some guys are counter punchers, some guys are volume punchers etc and some guys are a mix of a few different things. You don't get rewarded just because you're a pressure fighter, if that was the case then why wouldn't everyone just box like that? I mean Floyd made an ATG career for himself by not walking people down constantly....well except when he beat up Conor lol.

People don't even understand what they're looking at. A hard punch to the gloves doesn't land. A hard punch to the elbows is meaningless. If you throw a punch to the body that your opponent turns away from and you end up hitting him in the but cheek or the back doesn't count. Those are misses and affective defense. Canelo got his elbows in front of tons of GGG's bodywork. If you look at the compubox stats for the fight, which aren't really a good metric usually but are still a good indication in this fight of the way it went, GGG outlanded Canelo 218 to 169. Now, if you look at the powerpunches landed, Canelo outlanded GGG 114 to 110. That means Canelo was slinging leather everytime he punched, while GGG really wasn't.

GGG was effective with his pressure, landing more clean shots in most of the middle rounds. GGG was ineffective with his pressure in most of the rest of the fight.

Canelo was ineffective countering and standing his ground and driving ggg back a decent bit and landing clean shots in the middle rounds. He was effective in most of the rest of the fight.

I agree. It really just comes down to how you personally score a round. I've always scored fights as I've watched them, and what I'm looking for is clean, effective punching. Output and work rate are secondary things. Who is able to land the bigger more significant punches. If you look at the first 2 rounds, That's Canelo. Round 3 it almost seemed as if they agreed to take turns pushing forward and hammering the other one. GGG would go, then Canelo would go, then GGG, and so on. So that's an even round in my mind. If the bell rings and you still don't know who won the round it's 10-10 to me, and more judges need to give 10-10s IMO. 4 and 5 there really isn't much going on. It's GGG pushing forward and landing jabs. and doing some bodywork and throwing ineffective combos. In a round like that I look at who lands the big punch. If there is a single significant punch landed in the round, that guy wins the round. If they both land a big punch and one guy is more active, the more active fighter wins the round. So those two go to GGG. 6 and 7 GGG really wore Canelo down and beat him up effectively.

Now, this is kind of a turning point in the fight in my eyes. There is a shift here that I don't think many people picked up on. It's still GGG pressing in, but it's Canelo not just defending, but countering and making GGG wade through stuff. The only round of the last 5 I gave to Triple G was 9. The 8th Canelo really got him to over extend and hit him with real significant shots for most of the round. Agian, the only question is who lands the big shots. Yes, GGG is coming forward and pushing Canelo back, but he's doing that with his BODY. He isn't doing that with his FISTS. While GGG is doing that, Canelo is bouncing his FISTS off of GGG's head pretty regularly. Again, GGG is more active, Canelo more frequently landed big punches. GGG probably landed more punches in those rounds but they weren't significant. Canelo was throwing missiles. So people have to decide what they're scoring. Either pressure or punching. I score punching.

It was a close fight.

It really was. 1,2 and 12 for Canelo and 6 and 7 for GGG are the only real "for sure" rounds that I can see. The rest are based off of what you look for when scoring.

People are effectively saying that Canelo would have had to have magically turned into Roman Gonzalez and forced GGG into the Philly shell on the backfoot in order to win the fight and that's just silly. Both guys were about equally effective in what they do and bring to the table.

People seem to forget that points aren't awarded for manfully getting punched in the face.

 

[lfd0311]

I think you are correct on those moments and Golovkin was phased by those shots, I just have a different idea in my head I guess when I hear the phrase "hurt him". There were big shots landed from both sides but I would not say either fighter was particularly hurt during it

I thought he was legitimately hurt. Like if he'd jumped on him and pressed it he could have dropped him. But he either didn't realize it or didn't want to press it because he was gassing and Golovkin's got a great chin and is always dangerous and his recovery time was unreal.

I also thought there was spot early in the fight, one of the fight times GGG pressed him against the ropes where he hit Canelo with a looping right hand that Canelo tried to slip that hit him in the back of the head that was so hard that if it wasn't for the ropes being there the force of the punch alone would have knocked Canelo down.

 

[BEER]

Yeah, this certainly isn't a robbery. The one card was absurd, but there were so many incredibly close rounds, that it's easy to see either fighter winning, or a draw.

Great fucking fight though.

 

[savemgs]

I haven't watched boxing since Mayweather vs. McGregor.
And before that it was Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield That ended in a draw. And before that I used to watch boxing of the time. I'm guessing the same thing happened?

 

[BryanTheFighter]

Thats is a bad score but the result was on the nose. I think a draw was the correct result and a rematch will likely be made because of it.

Why was it a draw?

If we get a rematch, it’ll be interesting to see a tactical change so that we see GGG go to more body punching, because Canelo did have phases in the fight where he was ducking and slipping Golovkin’s power punches, and that’s where GGG’s lack of pure speed is a tremendous disadvantage.

 

[613]

the fact of the matter is neither had much of an advantage in power shots landed. they both pack a ton of power.

How is that a fact? The guys argument is that Canelo landed the harder, cleaner power punches even though GGG landed almost as many. I have to rewatch the fight, but that's pretty much how I remeber it.

 

[stuff jones]

Yeah I thought he would win pretty wide. I think he's the more skilled boxer and that showed at various points but unfortunately just skill alone isn't the only thing that's gonna win you fights.

GGG pressure and pace were awesome and even though I assume canelo knew he couldn't take breaks mid fight and rest against the ropes before the fight, he really had no choice as GGG was just straight relentless. I honestly thought GGG was gonna run away with it until the 10th when it was playing out. Something I told to RR before GGG fight with Danny is that you constantly have to be pushing back at GGG otherwise he'll roll over you like an avalanche. Canelo did that very well early and pretty well late. Gave up a lot of ground and rounds mid fight by being passive and letting GGG set up on him on the ropes. Interested to see if he'll adjust in the rematch


Overall, I think both guys were damn effective in what they bring to the table and thought it was an awesome fight that could have gone either way with the judges.

I think part of the reason he had so much success early is because GGG was a little tight and maybe respected his power a little bit too much. After the first few rounds GGG opened up and realized he didn't have to be as cautious. Canelo hit him square a few times, including with that clean haymaker right, and GGGkept coming. It's got to be tough fighting GGG - he's is a little like the undead where you have to put a stake through him to be safe.

 

[Langinbang187]

Boxing is a fucking joke. GGG worked him.

 

[stuff jones]

People don't even understand what they're looking at. A hard punch to the gloves doesn't land. A hard punch to the elbows is meaningless. If you throw a punch to the body that your opponent turns away from and you end up hitting him in the but cheek or the back doesn't count. Those are misses and affective defense. Canelo got his elbows in front of tons of GGG's bodywork. If you look at the compubox stats for the fight, which aren't really a good metric usually but are still a good indication in this fight of the way it went, GGG outlanded Canelo 218 to 169. Now, if you look at the powerpunches landed, Canelo outlanded GGG 114 to 110. That means Canelo was slinging leather everytime he punched, while GGG really wasn't.



I agree. It really just comes down to how you personally score a round. I've always scored fights as I've watched them, and what I'm looking for is clean, effective punching. Output and work rate are secondary things. Who is able to land the bigger more significant punches. If you look at the first 2 rounds, That's Canelo. Round 3 it almost seemed as if they agreed to take turns pushing forward and hammering the other one. GGG would go, then Canelo would go, then GGG, and so on. So that's an even round in my mind. If the bell rings and you still don't know who won the round it's 10-10 to me, and more judges need to give 10-10s IMO. 4 and 5 there really isn't much going on. It's GGG pushing forward and landing jabs. and doing some bodywork and throwing ineffective combos. In a round like that I look at who lands the big punch. If there is a single significant punch landed in the round, that guy wins the round. If they both land a big punch and one guy is more active, the more active fighter wins the round. So those two go to GGG. 6 and 7 GGG really wore Canelo down and beat him up effectively.

Now, this is kind of a turning point in the fight in my eyes. There is a shift here that I don't think many people picked up on. It's still GGG pressing in, but it's Canelo not just defending, but countering and making GGG wade through stuff. The only round of the last 5 I gave to Triple G was 9. The 8th Canelo really got him to over extend and hit him with real significant shots for most of the round. Agian, the only question is who lands the big shots. Yes, GGG is coming forward and pushing Canelo back, but he's doing that with his BODY. He isn't doing that with his FISTS. While GGG is doing that, Canelo is bouncing his FISTS off of GGG's head pretty regularly. Again, GGG is more active, Canelo more frequently landed big punches. GGG probably landed more punches in those rounds but they weren't significant. Canelo was throwing missiles. So people have to decide what they're scoring. Either pressure or punching. I score punching.




It really was. 1,2 and 12 for Canelo and 6 and 7 for GGG are the only real "for sure" rounds that I can see. The rest are based off of what you look for when scoring.




People seem to forget that points aren't awarded for manfully getting punched in the face.

Meh. Canelo was throwing shots that were't phasing GGG who just walked through them. Canelo throws nice crisp punches and recoils his arm with self satisfied style but he wasn't punching effectively. I define punching effectively as hurting the opposition or at least dissuading them from doing what they want. And after the first few rounds, Canelo's punching wasn't dissuading GGG from going where he wanted. This isn't fencing, you can't just touch a guy to score. GGG hits you everywhere and hits you everywhere hard. That is part of his strategy, to physically beat you up all over and break you down. So it's not right to not count shots that don't land cleanly even though they're clearly having an impact as evidenced by Canelo being on his bike all night.

 

[JayE]

I saw it this way too. You don't get a scoring boost in boxing because you're a pressure fighter. It was clear canelo was outboxing GGG for all of the early rounds and he came on strong again in the champ rounds.

I actually feel like he let a clear domination out of his grasp by giving up the entire middle of the fight. GGG was hitting a fuckton of gloves and glancing shots and canelos work was much cleaner and slipping a ton of GGG shots. Watch even just the highlights and this becomes really clear. If Canelo wouldn't have taken those middle rounds off (or at least not as many) it would have been a clinic. Hard not to do that with GGG crazy pressure and pace, though.

Close, amazing fight. No robbery. Draw is fine.

I don't think Canelo was capable of keeping up that pace, though. He needed to take those rounds off in order to have enough in the tank to win those last few rounds.

 

[champbless]

Breaking: judge who scored 118-110 Canelo gave her word on her scorecard

 

[lfd0311]

Meh. Canelo was throwing shots that were't phasing GGG who just walked through them. Canelo throws nice crisp punches and recoils his arm with self satisfied style but he wasn't punching effectively. I define punching effectively as hurting the opposition or at least dissuading them from doing what they want. And after the first few rounds, Canelo's punching wasn't dissuading GGG from going where he wanted. This isn't fencing, you can't just touch a guy to score. GGG hits you everywhere and hits you everywhere hard. That is part of his strategy, to physically beat you up all over and break you down. So it's not right to not count shots that don't land cleanly even though they're clearly having an impact as evidenced by Canelo being on his bike all night.

Those two things don't really line up, especially in this fight. Canelo blasted GGG throughout the fight. The rounds that GGG won he won through a higher workrate, not through effective punching or hurting Canelo. He was literally just walking him down and for the most part just touching him. Canelo knocked GGG off balance and I thought hurt him two seperate times and knocked him back on his heels twice. He was moving Canelo with his body, not with his punches. Canelo was willfully giving ground for some reason, until he decided to press forward and every time he did that he pushed GGG backwards and really beat him up.

 

[JayE]

This pretty much says what I was thinking. I agree.

I do like what you said about adjustments but I also feel that the one big adjustment that makes the next fight more clear for Golovkin is that he simply needs to attack off his jab more. Canelo really couldn't generate much momentum during the fight when Gennady did that, and when Canelo tried to pick up some points along the ropes, Golovkin contained him by jabbing to set up his other work.

Really, a jab-centered attack, like we saw is not something Canelo can overcome often enough. The fight was sliding away from Alvarez and GGG let him back in the fight in those last three rounds when he went for the kill. Think about it. People keep talking about Canelo's adjustments, but they are all limited by his lack of offensive prowess - when he attacks his feet just a bit out of sync with his hands. If he tries to pressure GGG more he gets tired faster and doesn't really land that clean on GGG offensively as he does defensively. He never adjusted to that jab and I don't think he can. It's his bane, and it always has been.

I don't think a knockout for GGG is reasonable to expect. He is 35 and also, Canelo is that damn good defensively. Canelo can only get a stoppage by wearing down GGG's body.

The major factor in this fight was their gas tank. Canelo can't fight all three minutes of a round, and Golovkin is pretty much always pushing the pace. I actually think Golovkin could have been a bit better with his footwork and not let Canelo escape on the ropes so much so as to further exert pressure on Canelo and make him work more. While his jab was easily his most effective punch, he couldn't use it as much as he's used to using it largely because Canelo was able to counter off of it at times. It's hard for me to imagine any fight between these two that wouldn't be very close.

 

[ThulsaDooom]

This why I'll only watch the occasional boxing match. Pure fuckery with that 118-110 score.

 

[315MMAFighter]

118-110 .....dis bitch got to go and hide under a rock somewhere far for at least few years

 

[stuff jones]

Those two things don't really line up, especially in this fight. Canelo blasted GGG throughout the fight. The rounds that GGG won he won through a higher workrate, not through effective punching or hurting Canelo. He was literally just walking him down and for the most part just touching him. Canelo knocked GGG off balance and I thought hurt him two seperate times and knocked him back on his heels twice. He was moving Canelo with his body, not with his punches. Canelo was willfully giving ground for some reason, until he decided to press forward and every time he did that he pushed GGG backwards and really beat him up.

He never beat GGG up or hurt him. The one time GGG was off balance was when Canelo blocked his punch and the follow through + bad balance made him stumble. Canelo hit him with a huge right, about the hardest punch he can throw, and GGG didn't budge.

//

I think Canelo realized fighting toe to toe wasn't going to work, despite his temporary success, and got on his bike. I think that's GGG's power, despite not landing cleanly at a high percentage. Canelo could feel it and knew that staying in the pocket would be too risky. Why else would he abandon a strategy that was having temporary success?

 

[Tam-Tam]

No.

 

[Noctilux]

Not impressed by Canelo and crooked Golden Boy. They got what they wanted by waiting out an old fading GGG, their city, and their corrupt judge yet still couldn't pull out a win.

 

[lfd0311]

He never beat GGG up or hurt him. The one time GGG was off balance was when Canelo blocked his punch and the follow through + bad balance made him stumble. Canelo hit him with a huge right, about the hardest punch he can throw, and GGG didn't budge.

//

I think Canelo realized fighting toe to toe wasn't going to work, despite his temporary success, and got on his bike. I think that's GGG's power, despite not landing cleanly at a high percentage. Canelo could feel it and knew that staying in the pocket would be too risky. Why else would he abandon a strategy that was having temporary success?

That shot backed him up. That counts heavy on the scorecards. GGG did nothing like that all fight. And Canelo did that numerous times during the fight. He hit him with a hook that staggered him and that punch prior to what you're talking about hurt him too.

It looked to me like Canelo knew he couldn't finish GGG and also knew he couldn't maintain the pace he was fighting at. Canelo is pretty deliberate and used to controlling the pace. He turned it on in the last 5 rounds. You can't watch that fight and find an exchange that GGG outright won.

 

[Rico]

I don't think Canelo was capable of keeping up that pace, though. He needed to take those rounds off in order to have enough in the tank to win those last few rounds.

Yeah I tend to agree. That's actually always kind of been the knock on him, though. Takes rounds off, rests on the ropes etc. Idk if he ever can improve his cardio enough to push the kind of pace that GGG does or anything but maybe he get to the point where he's a lil more sustained throughout the fight and instead of GGG sweeping those middle rounds, he can steal a few. He was lighting GGG up early imo. And even at the end of the fight, when visibly tired, was getting the better of the exchanges.