International German papers reporting: German Intelligence concluded Covid leaked from lab

AmonTobin said:
It’s 2025 and maga is still blaming Fauci for doing his job which was to protect the public’s health in a pandemic. The ignorance is astounding.
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My position was always whether it came from a market or lab, we still had to deal with it. At that point what difference did it make?
 
Andy Capp said:
I thought I was pretty clear about that. But here you go.

All the evidence available shows it's much more likely that it originated in wet market than in that lab but it's not a certainty. There may never be any certainty and we'll just have to settle for "the best explanation according to the data", so for now, I do.

If new information comes out that contradicts that, I'd be happy to examine it, but a German intelligence agency report from 2020 isn't that. Now, I wonder if the "anyone who thinks this didn't come from a lab is a moron" people ITT see it that way or not.
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I think there's a bit more evidence than a German Intel report out there now. Just the fact that a carona virus showed up where there is a carona virus lab is pretty damning in and of itself and your take comes across like a flat earther. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't actually believe the wet market thing and if we were in Vegas I would have just lost money on you.
 
Andy Capp said:
Listen, all I did was point out that the source posted said they have low confidence in their conclusion. I didn't say they're wrong. I have no vested interest either way in what happened. Obviously, knowing the truth either way is a good thing and I look forward to more information coming out. But all talk and no evidence leaves me waiting for some.


What I think doesn't really matter until more evidence is forthcoming. A little over 6 months ago I saw a report concluding it appears likely it originated from a wet market.

To wit,

www.nature.com

COVID pandemic started in Wuhan market animals after all, suggests latest study

The finding comes from a reanalysis of genomic data.
www.nature.com www.nature.com

20 September 2024
"The hunt for the origin of the COVID-19 pandemic has new leads. Researchers have identified half a dozen animal species that could have passed SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, to people, by reanalysing genomes collected from an animal market in Wuhan, China1. The study establishes the presence of animals and the virus at the market, although it does not confirm whether the animals themselves were infected with the virus."


www.bbc.com

Covid origins: Genetic ghosts suggest pandemic started in market

A team of scientists say it is "beyond reasonable doubt" the Covid pandemic started with infected animals.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Their analysis was published last year and the raw data made available to other scientists. Now a team in the US and France says they have performed even more advanced genetic analyses to peer deeper into Covid’s early days.

It involved analysing millions of short fragments of genetic code – both DNA and RNA – to establish what animals and viruses were in the market in January 2020.

"We are seeing the DNA and RNA ghosts of these animals in the environmental samples, and some are in stalls where [the Covid virus] was found too," says Prof Florence Débarre, of the French National Centre for Scientific Research.

The results, published in the journal Cell, highlight a series of findings that come together to make their case.

It shows Covid virus and susceptible animals were detected in the same location, with some individual swabs collecting both animal and coronavirus genetic code. This is not evenly distributed across the market and points to very specific hotspots.

"We find a very consistent story in terms of this pointing - even at the level of a single stall - to the market as being the very likely origin of this particular pandemic," says Prof Kristian Andersen, from the Scripps Institute in the US.
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Its a fair position.
 
Gutter Chris said:
I think there's a bit more evidence than a German Intel report out there now. Just the fact that a carona virus showed up where there is a carona virus lab is pretty damning in and of itself and your take comes across like a flat earther. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't actually believe the wet market thing and if we were in Vegas I would have just lost money on you.
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Why don't you read the articles I posted and then get back to me about the evidence?

"We find a very consistent story in terms of this pointing - even at the level of a single stall - to the market as being the very likely origin of this particular pandemic," says Prof Kristian Andersen, from the Scripps Institute in the US."
 
Andy Capp said:
I think you should read my two posts above (and the sources I included) and reconsider that position. Then you can get back to me about what sort of people easily fall victim to confirmation bias.


"The lab-leak theory argues that instead of the virus spilling over from wildlife, it instead came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which has long studied coronaviruses.

It is located a 40-minute drive away from the market. The US intelligence community was asked to weigh up the likelihood of a leak – either accidental or deliberate.

In June 2023, all the agencies involved said either a leak or animal origins were plausible scenarios.

The National Intelligence Council and four other agencies said animals were the likely source. The FBI and the Department of Energy thought it was more likely to be a laboratory incident.

Prof Andersen said: "To many this seems like the most likely scenario - 'the lab is right there, of course it was the lab, are you stupid?'. I totally get that argument."

However, he says there is now plenty of data that "really points to the market as the true early epicentre" and "even locations within that market"."
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Its a 17 km distance, 25 mins.

There were no pangolins, bats or civets sold at the market during the periods leading up.

Nothing tested positive for it at Huanan.
 
Andy Capp said:
Why don't you read the articles I posted and then get back to me about the evidence?

"We find a very consistent story in terms of this pointing - even at the level of a single stall - to the market as being the very likely origin of this particular pandemic," says Prof Kristian Andersen, from the Scripps Institute in the US."
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The problem is I think your article is full of shit and it's much better for the United States government and the Chinese government to spread info that it came from a wet market than it is for them to talk about what was going on in that lab . That studied bat carona viruses. Like the ones that caused a global pandemic. That happened to be located in the exact same place as that wet market.
 
Gutter Chris said:
The problem is I think your article is full of shit and it's much better for the United States government and the Chinese government to spread info that it came from a wet market than it is for them to talk about what was going on in that lab . That studied bat carona viruses. Like the ones that caused a global pandemic. That happened to be located in the exact same place as that wet market.
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Sigh.

I posted evidence--well, links to the evidence. I'm not talking about "info"; I'm talking about DNA and other concrete evidence. You posted none. Who has the stronger argument?
 
Rob Battisti said:
Not sure if you’re serious? You don’t remember Pelosi going to a Chinatown?
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Again, I'm not disputing you. I'm just saying your point would be better made linking to a real article instead of a comedy one.
 
Rob Battisti said:
The idea that it was racist to suggest a coronavirus popping up right next to a lab with lax precautions that was studying gain of function on coronaviruses was a leak is the most frustrating gaslight of all time.
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When the pandemic first hit and Canada was shutting down international flights, there was exemptions for one country and one country only. China. Why ? because it would be racist to unfairly target China. I am curious to know how many countries had this same policy of intentional spread of the virus.
AmonTobin said:
It’s 2025 and maga is still blaming Fauci for doing his job which was to protect the public’s health in a pandemic. The ignorance is astounding.
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Fauci should be executed and anyone who thinks he was innocent should have their eyes stapled open while being forced to read all the evidence against him until their brain snaps.
 
Andy Capp said:
The facts don't care about your fears.
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The government can only cover up the facts for so long, you are shilling for the cover up of facts so stfu about facts over feelings Andy Cuck.
 
Lycandroid said:
When the pandemic first hit and Canada was shutting down international flights, there was exemptions for one country and one country only. China. Why ? because it would be racist to unfairly target China. I am curious to know how many countries had this same policy of intentional spread of the virus.

Fauci should be executed and anyone who thinks he was innocent should have their eyes stapled open while being forced to read all the evidence against him until their brain snaps.
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Funny how you ignore the evidence that doesn't fit with your confirmation bias and, like the other blind mice ITT, opt for ad hominem* instead.


*I saved you the trouble of googling that, you can just click on it.
 
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