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Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

KaNesDeath said:
Some potential bad news for AMD. Its alleged they stole 3D cache architecture on their CPU's:

www.reuters.com

Adeia sues AMD for patent infringement over semiconductor technology

Technology licensing company Adeia filed two lawsuits against Advanced Micro Devices in Texas federal court on Monday for allegedly infringing ten patents related to semiconductor innovations.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Click to expand...
This is a patent troll lol.

Hybrid bonding is TSMC tech, AMD just ordered it. Easier to go after them than TSMC.
 
KaNesDeath said:
Steam Machine 2 episode 1, Steam Controller 2 episode 1 and Index 2 episode 1:

Click to expand...

As always, the question is how much of a bath is Steam willing to take on hardware in order to protect its software moat. Interesting the GPU isn't bigger, guess they couldn't/didn't want to pony up for that big an order with AMD and compete more directly with console and PC.
 
avenue94 said:
As always, the question is how much of a bath is Steam willing to take on hardware in order to protect its software moat. Interesting the GPU isn't bigger, guess they couldn't/didn't want to pony up for that big an order with AMD and compete more directly with console and PC.
Click to expand...
Disagree. I'm not sure that's required, but they probably will, anyway. Unlike last time, they've built a lot of momentum for SteamOS with the Deck, but more importantly, we're not in the same market situation we were then. I didn't watch the GN video, but based on RDNA's fairly rigid architectural design, it's pretty easy to extrapolate how powerful it will be, and make estimates to fill in the gaps. The GPU looks like it's going to be slightly less powerful than the PS5 (~15% less powerful than the RX 7600). The CPU is substantially stronger; it's basically an R5-7400F.

I can't imagine they will let it cost as much as the PS5's new MSRP at $549. I suppose $499 is a safe bet, but it's conceivable Valve puts it for lower given...well, they can.

And if there is a need for something only Windows can run, one can just install Windows 11 for free and use it unactivated. They give one full control, unlike other consoles, so creating a partition (or buying a second drive/SD card) for a dual boot is feasible even for those who aren't tech-savvy with the help of a YouTube video. This retains the SteamOS on the machine as it is shipped and intended as a product.

There are definitely sacrifices against a more traditional PC, but for someone who wants to get into PC gaming, what could possibly compete with that on the open market for ~$500?
  • Ryzen 5 7000 series CPU
  • RX 7600ish GPU
  • 16GB DDR5 RAM
  • 512GB NVMe
  • WiFi 6 + Bluetooth
  • Dual-analog controller included

That shits on the best value PC you can get for $500 right now-- even $600 or $700. I think Valve realizes that. I get the sense they are seizing the moment.
 
Madmick said:
Disagree. I'm not sure that's required, but they probably will, anyway. Unlike last time, they've built a lot of momentum for SteamOS with the Deck, but more importantly, we're not in the same market situation we were then. I didn't watch the GN video, but based on RDNA's fairly rigid architectural design, it's pretty easy to extrapolate how powerful it will be, and make estimates to fill in the gaps. The GPU looks like it's going to be slightly less powerful than the PS5 (~15% less powerful than the RX 7600). The CPU is substantially stronger; it's basically an R5-7400F.

I can't imagine they will let it cost as much as the PS5's new MSRP at $549. I suppose $499 is a safe bet, but it's conceivable Valve puts it for lower given...well, they can.

And if there is a need for something only Windows can run, one can just install Windows 11 for free and use it unactivated. They give you full control, unlike other consoles, so creating a partition (or buying a second drive/SD card) for a dual boot is feasible even for those who aren't tech-savvy with the help of a YouTube video, and thus retain the SteamOS as it is shipped and intended as a product.

There are definitely sacrifices against a more traditional PC with fewer ports and the like, but for someone who wants to get into PC gaming, what could possibly compete with that on the open market for ~$500?
  • Ryzen 5 7000 series CPU
  • RX 7600ish GPU
  • 16GB DDR5 RAM
  • 512GB NVMe
  • WiFi 6 + Bluetooth
  • Dual-analog controller included

That shits on the best value PC you can guy for $500 right now-- even $600 or $700. I think Valve realizes that. I get the sense they are seizing the moment.
Click to expand...
What kind of VRAM/RAM does the PS5 Pro have? I'm not sure how their architecture works, but I assume it's similar to a pc.

They tout this as a 4K/60FPS device with FSR, but those 8 GB of VRAM are going to be severely limiting, along with 16 GB of RAM.

The price will be important, what do you think they'll charge based on your estimations?

This looks like it could be a cool intro to PC gaming though, and a cool secondary PC/companion to the Deck, especially if it has the Steam Deck "verified" levels of compatibility, and gives you a set configuration at launch. Did they say they'd have something similar? I love my Steam Deck for that. I'll still mess around with settings, as I'm used to tinkering, but my two good friends who have the Deck, and aren't PC gamers traditionally, can just boot up verified games with generally no worry and no questions to me lol.
 
Valve also has more information on PC gaming habits than anybody else. These specs are certainly informed by that data. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a case of 'good enough for 95% of all gaming hours spent on the platform.' *for Proton compatible titles
 
Do y'all remember the "Steam Machine" Alienware consoles at Walmart like 12 years ago?
 
GtehMVP said:
What kind of VRAM/RAM does the PS5 Pro have? I'm not sure how their architecture works, but I assume it's similar to a pc.

They tout this as a 4K/60FPS device with FSR, but those 8 GB of VRAM are going to be severely limiting, along with 16 GB of RAM.

The price will be important, what do you think they'll charge based on your estimations?

This looks like it could be a cool intro to PC gaming though, and a cool secondary PC/companion to the Deck, especially if it has the Steam Deck "verified" levels of compatibility, and gives you a set configuration at launch. Did they say they'd have something similar? I love my Steam Deck for that. I'll still mess around with settings, as I'm used to tinkering, but my two good friends who have the Deck, and aren't PC gamers traditionally, can just boot up verified games with generally no worry and no questions to me lol.
Click to expand...
The PS5 has 16GB GDDR6 VRAM which it uses for the whole system. That's one of the things that makes consoles unique. This Steam Deck will have 16GB DDR5 system RAM, and then there is 8GB GDDR6 VRAM for the GPU. That is traditional for PCs.

This is where the PS5 enjoys almost all of its advantage in terms of gaming processing power, btw. The Steam Machine will have more total RAM (24GB), but the GDDR6 RAM in the PS5 is much faster. It has a gaping speed advantage over the DDR5 RAM, which is to be expected, but also the GDDR6 in the Steam Machine; that's if one assumes the Steam Machine's GPU will resemble the RX 7000 series that AMD put out (their RDNA 3.0 GPUs) because then it will have a 128-bit memory width same as the RX 7600. This means the total bandwidth of the GDDR6 in the Steam Machine will be 224 GB/s compared to the 448 GB/s in the PS5. Unless Steam has some deal with AMD to double that memory bus on the custom chip, somehow, which would equalize them. They did that with the Steam Deck, by doubling the RAM lanes to quad-channel, but that seems less likely here since it would require modification to the GPU, not the system board, though I suppose it's still possible.

These are estimates, but this is what I expect based on what they shared considering how RDNA 3 works:

Playstation 5Steam Machine
Memory Amount 16GB GDDR6 (shared)8GB GDDR6 (GPU)
16GB DDR5 (System)
Memory Bandwidth (GB/s)448.0224.0 (GPU)
83.2 - 96.0 (System)
Pixel Bandwidth (GP/s)142.9137.2
Textel Bandwidth (GT/s)321.6274.4
Processing Power (TFLOPS)10.2917.56
My Spot said:
Do y'all remember the "Steam Machine" Alienware consoles at Walmart like 12 years ago?
Click to expand...
And they exemplified the worst case of the problem that plagued them all. They were just too expensive. Nobody wanted a Steam Machine back then because it cost more for the Steam Machines all the companies were trying to sell than equally powerful or more powerful PCs one could build themselves.
 
Madmick said:
I can't imagine they will let it cost as much as the PS5's new MSRP at $549. I suppose $499 is a safe bet, but it's conceivable Valve puts it for lower given...well, they can.
Click to expand...

PCMR thread i suspected the 512gig version to be $499.


JBSchroeds said:
Valve also has more information on PC gaming habits than anybody else. These specs are certainly informed by that data. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a case of 'good enough for 95% of all gaming hours spent on the platform.' *for Proton compatible titles
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you look at the titles Steam users play that this machine is targeting. The specs are more than enough to handle such game titles.




KidBaize said:
The new steam controller looks amazing
Click to expand...

Only hardware announcement im interested in, lol.

Original Steam controller the trackpads were in a odd spot. Their new location seems to fit the natural resting position of your thumbs when holding the controller.
 
JBSchroeds said:
Valve also has more information on PC gaming habits than anybody else. These specs are certainly informed by that data. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a case of 'good enough for 95% of all gaming hours spent on the platform.' *for Proton compatible titles
Click to expand...
Valve 1000% has less data than Microsoft. Not even close if you're familiar with the telemetry Microsoft uses for planning.
 
KaNesDeath said:
Only hardware announcement im interested in, lol.

Original Steam controller the trackpads were in a odd spot. Their new location seems to fit the natural resting position of your thumbs when holding the controller.
Click to expand...
I love the backpaddles and gyro. Don't know what to think about the trackpad positioning but it's definitely easier to reach for your thumb down there. Hopefully the controller is well built and not cheap feeling.
 
Madmick said:
Disagree. I'm not sure that's required, but they probably will, anyway. Unlike last time, they've built a lot of momentum for SteamOS with the Deck, but more importantly, we're not in the same market situation we were then. I didn't watch the GN video, but based on RDNA's fairly rigid architectural design, it's pretty easy to extrapolate how powerful it will be, and make estimates to fill in the gaps. The GPU looks like it's going to be slightly less powerful than the PS5 (~15% less powerful than the RX 7600). The CPU is substantially stronger; it's basically an R5-7400F.

I can't imagine they will let it cost as much as the PS5's new MSRP at $549. I suppose $499 is a safe bet, but it's conceivable Valve puts it for lower given...well, they can.

And if there is a need for something only Windows can run, one can just install Windows 11 for free and use it unactivated. They give one full control, unlike other consoles, so creating a partition (or buying a second drive/SD card) for a dual boot is feasible even for those who aren't tech-savvy with the help of a YouTube video. This retains the SteamOS on the machine as it is shipped and intended as a product.

There are definitely sacrifices against a more traditional PC, but for someone who wants to get into PC gaming, what could possibly compete with that on the open market for ~$500?
  • Ryzen 5 7000 series CPU
  • RX 7600ish GPU
  • 16GB DDR5 RAM
  • 512GB NVMe
  • WiFi 6 + Bluetooth
  • Dual-analog controller included

That shits on the best value PC you can get for $500 right now-- even $600 or $700. I think Valve realizes that. I get the sense they are seizing the moment.
Click to expand...
I would expect 599 before I see substantially below 499 MSRP. The cheapest mass market pre-built desktop is 799 as is and thats with brutal margins, so there's room to play with on thr PC side.

I'm also not sure Valve has bought enough capacity to hit the economies of scale a lot of people are hoping for.
 
avenue94 said:
I would expect 599 before I see substantially below 499 MSRP. The cheapest mass market pre-built desktop is 799 as is and thats with brutal margins, so there's room to play with on thr PC side.

I'm also not sure Valve has bought enough capacity to hit the economies of scale a lot of people are hoping for.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't matter. Still shits on $599 PCs. Almost all of the predictions I'm seeing from journalists are between $499-$749. Gamers in the general public seem to agree.

NeoGAF User Poll: Predict the Steam Machine starting price ($499 -> top prediction)​

Resetera User Poll: Predict the Steam Machine starting price ($599 -> top prediction)

For reference, the MSI R2 series, which was roundly touted as the best new line of budget gaming PCs in 2024, has a unit that gives an idea of sustainable (i.e. non-sale) pricing. From Best Buy:

($749) MSI - Aegis R2 Gaming Desktop - Intel Core i5-14400F - 16GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5050 - 1TB SSD - Black​

This has a 1TB SSD, not 512GB, but that advantage is worth ~$40 in this class on the open market. Conversely, it doesn't come with a controller that appears will command a minimum value of $60+ on the open market. So this is actually more like a $770 stand-in.

You could also look at the HP Omen series, or whatever is trending from Skytech/iBuyPower/CyberpowerPC. Same story. Valve will have to contend with the sales that intermittently pop up, but this is to offer a stably priced baseline comparison.

They could fuck this up, but again, we are not in the same market we were in the first time around. They can undercut the PC hardware market, and still make bank. It's such a clear path to victory for SteamOS's ambitions.
 
Could the Steam Machine play the new Doom game at 1080p 60fps? Or Elden Ring?
 
KidBaize said:
Could the Steam Machine play the new Doom game at 1080p 60fps? Or Elden Ring?
Click to expand...
Yes.

These sorts of websites are never precise in their estimates, but I suggest using the R5-7400F for the CPU and the RX 7600 for the GPU. The Steam Machine should only be incrementally less powerful than these (~12%-15% less powerful):
Doom: The Dark Ages FPS estimate
Elden Ring FPS estimate

The 7400F is a rare processor, though, so the 7500 is easier to find for YouTube benchmarks. This will give you a rough idea:
 
Last edited:
Madmick said:
Yes.

These sorts of websites are never precise in their estimates, but I suggest using the R5-7400F for the CPU and the RX 7600 for the GPU. The Steam Machine should only be incrementally less powerful than these (~12%-15% less powerful):
Doom: The Dark Ages FPS estimate
Elden Ring FPS estimate

The 7400F is a rare processor, though, so the 7500 is easier to find for YouTube benchmarks. This will give you a rough idea:
Click to expand...

Cool. Doom TDA has fairly beefy requirements. My current setup is good enough but maybe next gen steam machine I'll look at. It's the perfect little box for the tv.
 
Madmick said:
Wouldn't matter. Still shits on $599 PCs. Almost all of the predictions I'm seeing from journalists are between $499-$749. Gamers in the general public seem to agree.

NeoGAF User Poll: Predict the Steam Machine starting price ($499 -> top prediction)​

Resetera User Poll: Predict the Steam Machine starting price ($599 -> top prediction)

For reference, the MSI R2 series, which was roundly touted as the best new line of budget gaming PCs in 2024, has a unit that gives an idea of sustainable (i.e. non-sale) pricing. From Best Buy:

($749) MSI - Aegis R2 Gaming Desktop - Intel Core i5-14400F - 16GB Memory - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5050 - 1TB SSD - Black​

This has a 1TB SSD, not 512GB, but that advantage is worth ~$40 in this class on the open market. Conversely, it doesn't come with a controller that appears will command a minimum value of $60+ on the open market. So this is actually more like a $770 stand-in.

You could also look at the HP Omen series, or whatever is trending from Skytech/iBuyPower/CyberpowerPC. Same story. Valve will have to contend with the sales that intermittently pop up, but this is to offer a stably priced baseline comparison.

They could fuck this up, but again, we are not in the same market we were in the first time around. They can undercut the PC hardware market, and still make bank. It's such a clear path to victory for SteamOS's ambitions.
Click to expand...
I didn't say it's not a better PC at the price point, that's why noted that the the lowest priced high volume prebuild is this one, which leaves Valve plenty of room to raise prices if it's planning to compete with desktops. RTX 5050 doesn't do much volume for obvious reasons, hence I picked RTX 5060 desktops.

What I did say was substantially lower than $499 isn't likely, unless Valve intends on taking a bath on hardware. $599-$699 would be my guess, since that gives Valve more room for partners down the road, plus the uncertainty of NAND and DRAM supply right now. I
 
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