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Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

Hmmm, when I bought my PC the builder gave me a PNY video card. I feel a bit surprised that it's one of the more reliable ones, that's a nice pleasant surprise.

i have a PNY verto geforce 4 sitting around in my shed somewhere. the things pretty much an antique now, but it'll still work lol. this stud card has got a whopping 64 megabytes of vram and it will run unreal tournament 2003 like a boss.

but good luck finding a computer with an AGP graphics port to use it with these days. maybe at your local landfill.
 
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Well, reviews for perhaps the first truly attractive card to the mass of gamers from the next generation of cards has dropped: AMD's RX 7800 XT. There's no reason that cards delivering high-end performance of premier AAA titles should cost more than $500 despite inflation even in 2023 (this would have been $357 in 2010 when the GeForce GTX 470 launched for a $349 MSRP). The RTX 4090, RTX 4080, RTX 4070 Ti, RX 7900 XTX, RX 7900 XT, and RX 7900 GRE are all too costly. Per affordable cards, the RTX 4060 and RX 7600 remain disappointing not only due to 8GB VRAM, but because they don't really improve the actual value performance over their predecessors real-market prices.

At an MSRP of $499, the 7800 XT is competing directly against the RX 6800 XT, which can be had for that exact price on the market right now (MSRP was $649 at release), and the RTX 3070 Ti, which can be bought for $50 less (MSRP $599 at release). The 3070 Ti's current pricing is thus identical to the MSRP of the abysmally priced 7700 XT. Meanwhile, the RTX 4070 is still overpriced to ever hope to be a leader on Steam hardware surveys at $599, but it is the current gen competition. So those are the three cards to look for to compare in the benchmarks below: (1) RTX 4070 (2) RX 6800 XT (3) RTX 3070 Ti.



\

average-fps-1920-1080.png


AMD Radeon RX 7800XT & RX 7700XT Graphics Cards Review Roundup

The verdict? While some of these websites that already have dubious reputations try to shill for the card, such as The Verge, calling it the "antidote to GPU inflation", the consensus from trusted, esteemed reviewers is succinctly summarized, "It's hard to get excited about yesterday's performance at yesterday's prices." Nevertheless, they also concede, it's "the best value yet", and there's no denying this is the first attractive release from the latest gen.

Because it at least beats comparable last gen units at their lowest current prices in terms of performance value, and it brings what will be a more enduring support for the latest iterations to come of the constantly evolving software features like FSR which are becoming increasingly significant to modern gaming.

So for those who were waiting for a good card to finally drop, here it is.

*Edit*
Oh, I almost forgot to add, for those who aren't Game Pass subscribers, the Starfield bundle was added for this card, so buyers will get the Premium Edition of that game complimentary of the purchase. Of note, the AMD cards have been equaling or outperforming NVIDIA counterparts a full performance class above them in the game. This advantage is further compounded when FSR is turned on for both brands as the AMD cards gain more from FSR than their NVIDIA counterparts.
Techspot: Starfield GPU Benchmark: 32 GPUs Tested, FSR On and Off
In the below video is the only benchmark of Starfield on the 7800 XT I could find, but their results are consistent with Techspot's above for 1080p Ultra without FSR for the older cards.


*Edit #2* (Sept-7 Update)
Tweaktown has now done a special feature on the new cards' performance on Starfield. With FSR turned on, the RX 7800 XT manages to average 52-60fps in 4K. Impressive.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9318...md-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus/index.html
93186_03_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg

93186_02_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg

93186_01_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg
 
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Scratching my head at gamers reacting histrionically to Todd Howard saying the game, in fact, is optimized on PC, and if you can't run it, you need to "upgrade your PC." One top comment on Reddit even tried analogizing it to Don Mattrick's boneheaded quotes at the Xbox One pre-launch:


DF found the Xbox Series X runs the game at roughly 1296p (2304x1296) upscaled to 4K at 30fps stable. That's 19% fewer pixels than 1440p, and 64% fewer pixels than 4K. The general graphic settings would probably conform to "High" on PC-- if that.

Comparatively, as you can see above, the RX 6800 XT runs the game at 61fps average and 54fps minimum on "High" settings with FSR, VRS, and Dynamic Resolution disabled for 1440p. Given, that's with a 13900K and 32GB DDR5-6000 RAM, but that's a curb stomping. Even adjusting for the CPU and GPU advantages of that test bench over the XSX, there's no indication the XSX is performing better relative to the hardware; in fact, the opposite is indicated.

As DSO Gaming points out, those with a bone to pick above all are Intel Arc owners, and after that, NVIDIA owners, but only because they're spoiled, and seem to react to receiving inferior driver optimization between the two big brands the way Morlock children might react to seeing the sun for the first time.
 
Well, reviews for perhaps the first truly attractive card to the mass of gamers from the next generation of cards has dropped: AMD's RX 7800 XT. There's no reason that cards delivering high-end performance of premier AAA titles should cost more than $500 despite inflation even in 2023 (this would have been $357 in 2010 when the GeForce GTX 470 launched for a $349 MSRP). The RTX 4090, RTX 4080, RTX 4070 Ti, RX 7900 XTX, RX 7900 XT, and RX 7900 GRE are all too costly. Per affordable cards, the RTX 4060 and RX 7600 remain disappointing not only due to 8GB VRAM, but because they don't really improve the actual value performance over their predecessors real-market prices.

At an MSRP of $499, the 7800 XT is competing directly against the RX 6800 XT, which can be had for that exact price on the market right now (MSRP was $649 at release), and the RTX 3070 Ti, which can be bought for $50 less (MSRP $599 at release). The 3070's current pricing is thus identical to the MSRP of the abysmally priced 7700 XT. Meanwhile, the RTX 4070 is still overpriced to ever hope to be a leader on Steam hardware surveys at $599, but it is the current gen competition. So those are the three cards to look for in the benchmarks below.





AMD Radeon RX 7800XT & RX 7700XT Graphics Cards Review Roundup

The verdict? While some of these websites that already have dubious reputations try to shill for the card, such as The Verge, calling it the "antidote to GPU inflation", the consensus from trusted, esteemed reviewers is succinctly summarized, "It's hard to get excited about yesterday's performance at yesterday's prices." Nevertheless, they also concede, it's "the best value yet", and there's no denying this is the first attractive release from the latest gen.

Because it at least beats compatable last gen units at their lowest current prices in terms of performance value, and it brings what will be a more enduring support for the latest iterations to come of the constantly evolving software features like FSR which are becoming increasingly significant to modern gaming.

So for those who were waiting for a good card to finally drop, here it is.

*Edit*
Oh, I almost forgot to add, for those who aren't Game Pass subscribers, the Starfield bundle was added for this card, so buyers will get the Premium Edition of that game complimentary of the purchase. Of note, the AMD cards have been equaling or outperforming NVIDIA counterparts a full performance class above them in the game. This advantage is further compounded when FSR is turned on for both brands as the AMD cards gain more from FSR than their NVIDIA counterparts.
Techspot: Starfield GPU Benchmark: 32 GPUs Tested, FSR On and Off
In the below video is the only benchmark of Starfield on the 7800 XT I could find, but their results are consistent with Techspot's above for 1080p Ultra without FSR for the older cards.


*Edit #2* (Sept-7 Update)
Tweaktown has now done a special feature on the new cards' performance on Starfield. With FSR turned on, the RX 7800 XT manages to average 52-60fps in 4K. Impressive.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9318...md-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus/index.html
93186_03_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg

93186_02_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg

93186_01_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg

@JayPettryMMA I think you have your answer here for your GPU upgrade, the 7800XT.
 
Scratching my head at gamers reacting histrionically to Todd Howard saying the game, in fact, is optimized on PC, and if you can't run it, you need to "upgrade your PC." One top comment on Reddit even tried analogizing it to Don Mattrick's boneheaded quotes at the Xbox One pre-launch:


DF found the Xbox Series X runs the game at roughly 1296p (2304x1296) upscaled to 4K at 30fps stable. That's 19% fewer pixels than 1440p, and 64% fewer pixels than 4K. The general graphic settings would probably conform to "High" on PC-- if that.

Comparatively, as you can see above, the RX 6800 XT runs the game at 61fps average and 54fps minimum on "High" settings with FSR, VRS, and Dynamic Resolution disabled. Given, that's with a 13900K and 32GB DDR5-6000 RAM, but that's a curb stomping. Even adjusting for the CPU and GPU advantages of that test bench over the XSX, there's no indication the XSX is performing better relative to the hardware; in fact, the opposite is indicated.

As DSO Gaming points out, those with a bone to pick above all are Intel Arc owners, and after that, NVIDIA owners, but only because they're spoiled, and seem to react to receiving inferior driver optimization between the two big brands the way Morlock children might react to seeing the sun for the first time.


I think it’s safe to assume that most people don’t even know what they mean when they say something is or isn’t optimized for PC. I remember a few years ago people saying that Quake 2 RTX was poorly optimized, latching solely onto the fact that at that point in time (say 2020 - 2021) Quake was already over 20 years old, without understanding just how demanding full on path tracing is compared “ordinary” ray tracing features. Quake 2 RTX required top of the line rigs not because it was poorly optimized, but instead because it was pushing the limits of what was achievable with ray tracing harder than anything else at the time.

In the Starfield thread a few months ago I already got into it with a few posters who were completely beside themselves about the fact that the game would be locked at 30fps on Series X, continually bringing up Doom Eternal and saying why didn’t they make Starfield on Idtech 7 without the fainter understanding as to why the comparison between the two game engines is truly apples to oranges. They don’t understand that the most taxing thing about Starfield (and other BGS games running on Creation) is “world persistence” which idtech isn’t even remotely designed to produce. “BuT dOom eTernL rUns at 200 FpS!!”
 
In the Starfield thread a few months ago I already got into it with a few posters who were completely beside themselves about the fact that the game would be locked at 30fps on Series X, continually bringing up Doom Eternal and saying why didn’t they make Starfield on Idtech 7

To be fair Doom Eternal is probably the best optimized Triple A game at release, ever.
 
To be fair Doom Eternal is probably the best optimized Triple A game at release, ever.

Well yeah, it very likely is, which only reinforces my point I think, that people shouldn’t be losing it over Starfield’s performance and comparing it to Doom Eternal of all games.
 
@JayPettryMMA I think you have your answer here for your GPU upgrade, the 7800XT.
Agreed. If the extra bit of fps over the 6800 XT weren't enough, then I'm sure the native AV1 hardware decoding would stand out for someone concerned with content creation like Jay. It makes real-time high-level, finely compressed AV1 video streaming a reality. You'll get no better image quality, and no better bang-for-your-buck on the upload bandwidth required.

On top of that, maybe the biggest thing I noticed in reviews was just how damn quiet some of the aftermarket variants of the RX 7800 XT are. The Sapphire Nitro+ and Powercolor Hellhound variants that Techpowerup reviewed performed extraordinarily. While the reference 4070 might be a lot quieter than the reference 7800 XT, none of the 4070 AICs matched these in terms of noise levels, and in fact, only the ASUS came close.
fan-noise.png
fan-noise.png
 
Sapphire RX460 pulled from old Dell's for $38 refurbished with free shipping from pcserverandparts.com, coupon code TG03C583RT. The Toasty Bros have bought PC's from them, and have said good things.

Since it doesn't require external power, slap that bad boy in a $60 used tower with something like an i5-6500. Pick up a $22 SSD, and you'd have a nice little machine for $125. It'll handle your eSports games, and a lot of emulators.
 
@Madmick @Blayt7hh
Do you guys think the extra $25 is worth it to go from a ASROCK B550M Pro 4 to a MSI B550-A Pro or ASROCK B550M Steel Legend?

Between Hardware Unboxed and Buildzoid, all 3 boards have good enough VRM's. I'm not going to be overclocking the ram or cpu. Ram is DDR4 3000.
My case doesn't have a USB-C connector, so I don't need a board with a header. I don't need to worry about he audio, I use external dacs/amps.

Really, my only requirement is being able to use three Gen3 NVME drives. With those boards, there's 2 m.2 slots, and 1 extra PCIe x16 (that run at 3.0 x 4). With that extra PCIe x16, I can use an adapter to use the 3rd NVME.
 
@Madmick @Blayt7hh
Do you guys think the extra $25 is worth it to go from a ASROCK B550M Pro 4 to a MSI B550-A Pro or ASROCK B550M Steel Legend?

Between Hardware Unboxed and Buildzoid, all 3 boards have good enough VRM's. I'm not going to be overclocking the ram or cpu. Ram is DDR4 3000.
My case doesn't have a USB-C connector, so I don't need a board with a header. I don't need to worry about he audio, I use external dacs/amps.

Really, my only requirement is being able to use three Gen3 NVME drives. With those boards, there's 2 m.2 slots, and 1 extra PCIe x16 (that run at 3.0 x 4). With that extra PCIe x16, I can use an adapter to use the 3rd NVME.
If not for the VRM, where the Steel Legend has a significant advantage (and better MOSFETs), then probably not.

Steel Legend has 2 more rear USB ports. It has 2.5 Gbps ethernet vs. 1 Gbps if you're blessed to have an ISP that fast. It has an LED debug code readout which the Pro4 doesn't, 2 more 3.5mm audio jackers, and an S/PDIF out. Steel Legend has built-in Displayport out which the Pro4 does not (while the Pro4 has VGA out which the Steel Legend does not). It has one more 4-pin fan port (7 vs. 6).

That's it.
 
If not for the VRM, where the Steel Legend has a significant advantage (and better MOSFETs), then probably not.

Steel Legend has 2 more rear USB ports. It has 2.5 Gbps ethernet vs. 1 Gbps if you're blessed to have an ISP that fast. It has an LED debug code readout which the Pro4 doesn't, 2 more 3.5mm audio jackers, and an S/PDIF out. Steel Legend has built-in Displayport out which the Pro4 does not (while the Pro4 has VGA out which the Steel Legend does not). It has one more 4-pin fan port (7 vs. 6).

That's it.

I never even thought to check before posting, but it appears the second M.2 on the Steel Legend is only Gen 3 x2, or SATA. It's the same with the B550 Pro 4.
 
I never even thought to check before posting, but it appears the second M.2 on the Steel Legend is only Gen 3 x2, or SATA. It's the same with the B550 Pro 4.
The second m.2 slot can run either protocol for those motherboards. It will either run as PCIe 3.0 at x2 speeds, or at SATA III if one requires this for whatever reason. You can see this in the table on p.45 of the User Manual for the Steel Legend, for example, or in the specification sheet:
- 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2280 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x2 (16 Gb/s)**

**Supports NVMe SSD as boot disks
Using that 2nd m.2 slot will disable the 5th and 6th SATA ports, though.

*Edit* I see you already had this, I embarrassingly misread your post to missing the Gen2 part. Just bear in mind that unless your SSD is rated to run faster than 2.0 MB/s you probably won't lose too much.
 
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Well, reviews for perhaps the first truly attractive card to the mass of gamers from the next generation of cards has dropped: AMD's RX 7800 XT. There's no reason that cards delivering high-end performance of premier AAA titles should cost more than $500 despite inflation even in 2023 (this would have been $357 in 2010 when the GeForce GTX 470 launched for a $349 MSRP). The RTX 4090, RTX 4080, RTX 4070 Ti, RX 7900 XTX, RX 7900 XT, and RX 7900 GRE are all too costly. Per affordable cards, the RTX 4060 and RX 7600 remain disappointing not only due to 8GB VRAM, but because they don't really improve the actual value performance over their predecessors real-market prices.

At an MSRP of $499, the 7800 XT is competing directly against the RX 6800 XT, which can be had for that exact price on the market right now (MSRP was $649 at release), and the RTX 3070 Ti, which can be bought for $50 less (MSRP $599 at release). The 3070 Ti's current pricing is thus identical to the MSRP of the abysmally priced 7700 XT. Meanwhile, the RTX 4070 is still overpriced to ever hope to be a leader on Steam hardware surveys at $599, but it is the current gen competition. So those are the three cards to look for to compare in the benchmarks below.



\

average-fps-1920-1080.png


AMD Radeon RX 7800XT & RX 7700XT Graphics Cards Review Roundup

The verdict? While some of these websites that already have dubious reputations try to shill for the card, such as The Verge, calling it the "antidote to GPU inflation", the consensus from trusted, esteemed reviewers is succinctly summarized, "It's hard to get excited about yesterday's performance at yesterday's prices." Nevertheless, they also concede, it's "the best value yet", and there's no denying this is the first attractive release from the latest gen.

Because it at least beats compatable last gen units at their lowest current prices in terms of performance value, and it brings what will be a more enduring support for the latest iterations to come of the constantly evolving software features like FSR which are becoming increasingly significant to modern gaming.

So for those who were waiting for a good card to finally drop, here it is.

*Edit*
Oh, I almost forgot to add, for those who aren't Game Pass subscribers, the Starfield bundle was added for this card, so buyers will get the Premium Edition of that game complimentary of the purchase. Of note, the AMD cards have been equaling or outperforming NVIDIA counterparts a full performance class above them in the game. This advantage is further compounded when FSR is turned on for both brands as the AMD cards gain more from FSR than their NVIDIA counterparts.
Techspot: Starfield GPU Benchmark: 32 GPUs Tested, FSR On and Off
In the below video is the only benchmark of Starfield on the 7800 XT I could find, but their results are consistent with Techspot's above for 1080p Ultra without FSR for the older cards.


*Edit #2* (Sept-7 Update)
Tweaktown has now done a special feature on the new cards' performance on Starfield. With FSR turned on, the RX 7800 XT manages to average 52-60fps in 4K. Impressive.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9318...md-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus/index.html
93186_03_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg

93186_02_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg

93186_01_heres-look-at-starfields-performance-on-the-new-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-and-7800-gpus.jpg



the 7800xt looks like its in a pretty good spot. even though all these new gpu's are on the pricey side these days. at least you wouldnt feel it as badly going with the 7800xt. it should hold up quite well for 1080p. and even at 1440p the performance will be roughly the same as the 6800xt or a little bit above and in some games it will even pull a little bit ahead of a 4070.
 
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I never even thought to check before posting, but it appears the second M.2 on the Steel Legend is only Gen 3 x2, or SATA. It's the same with the B550 Pro 4.

Ive encountered three problems on my AM4 board. First was ram not running at appropriate speed. If set manually the Pc would lock up and require a CMOS clear. Took a bios update to remedy.

Second involves my 390hz monitor, GPU and PCIe M.2 storage device. New M.2 storage i bought was 2tb and utilized all the bandwidth of its single PCIe 4.0 x4 M.2 slot. This caused my monitor to start flickering when at 390hz. Current remedy is running it at 360hz when gaming and 120hz at the desktop.

Third happened for the first time when upgrading from 3700X to 5800X. Getting the CPU heatsink off was a nightmare. It ripped the 3700X out of the locked socket bending some of its pins. Since upgrading to the 5800X ive changed CPU heatsinks three times for better thermals. Each proceeding time required patience to not repeat the 3700X incident. In fact the biggest time waster(and annoyance) is always getting the CPU heatsink off without damaging the CPU and motherboard CPU socket.
 
Finally got a 1TB expansion card for the Xbox. Too much good stuff coming out and to keep having to uninstall shit sucks.
 
Has anyone looked into the Hex Evo? I think it just recently became available to order. I'm very interested in the idea of having a joystick in my left hand and an MMO mouse in my right. I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay their $90 asking price for it. Seeing this product has made me consider the possibility of using a left hand switch joycon with a controller mapping software like lilypad to be able to do this.


 
I was thinking about getting a computer monitor for my PS5.

Do you need the computer or can I just plug my PS5 into the monitor then plug the monitor into the wall?
 
I was thinking about getting a computer monitor for my PS5.

Do you need the computer or can I just plug my PS5 into the monitor then plug the monitor into the wall?
As long as its got HDMI it should be just like a TV: plug it in and turn it on.
 
Has anyone looked into the Hex Evo? I think it just recently became available to order. I'm very interested in the idea of having a joystick in my left hand and an MMO mouse in my right. I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay their $90 asking price for it. Seeing this product has made me consider the possibility of using a left hand switch joycon with a controller mapping software like lilypad to be able to do this.


You can do better.
https://www.azeron.eu/
https://www.amazon.com/Azeron-Cyborg-Gaming-Keypad-Programmable/dp/B0CDQ9GCWS?th=1
5-Azeron-cyborg-compact-white_20220817.png




 
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