Game Services thread, v2: Ubisoft headline portends a darker gaming future

[WhiteMousse]

With no end in sight for the chip shortage how likely is it that interfaces like Stadia become a lot more viable over the next year?

 

[DespicablePeep]

Help an idiot out, is Game Pass Cloud like streaming games? Interested in ordering Game Pass PC with EA Play but it would nice to see a stream service, I mostly play games at the office and with current prices building a PC for home is too costly

 

[Madmick]

With no end in sight for the chip shortage how likely is it that interfaces like Stadia become a lot more viable over the next year?

Just depends on if people use them. I don't think most gamers realize how good they already are. GeForce Now is incredible. It will blow your mind how seamless it is. It feels like playing on a local console.

Help an idiot out, is Game Pass Cloud like streaming games? Interested in ordering Game Pass PC with EA Play but it would nice to see a stream service, I mostly play games at the office and with current prices building a PC for home is too costly

Yes. You can stream any game. You can do this with any Android phone. All you need is a controller. Xbox or Xinput controllers work the best, but PS4 controllers also work seamlessly with Android 8.0 or later (Android 6.0+ is required, but the key mapping is off for phones that run a version this primitive, though the controller will still work). You can connect with a USB controller or via Bluetooth. Pairing is simple.

You don't have to download the game. You can play any game in the Game Pass Cloud library with your phone or tablet, immediately. Just open the Game Pass app, go to the Cloud tab, find the game, and hit "Play".

It still has more of an issue with input lag than Stadia. It really prefers you to be close to your router, too. Those in cities nearer to a server with lower ping probably have a much better experience. The app takes forever if you don't use a more recent, powerful phone with a stronger chipset, too. But yeah, it works. Sometimes I can't complete a Game Pass Quest via PC, so I have to use the Cloud to get the points.

 

[WhiteMousse]

Just depends on if people use them. I don't think most gamers realize how good they already are. GeForce Now is incredible. It will blow your mind how seamless it is. It feels like playing on a local console.

Yes. You can stream any game. You can do this with any Android phone. All you need is a controller. Xbox or Xinput controllers work the best, but PS4 controllers also work seamlessly with Android 8.0 or later (Android 6.0+ is required, but the key mapping is off for phones that run a version this primitive, though the controller will still work). You can connect with a USB controller or via Bluetooth. Pairing is simple.

You don't have to download the game. You can play any game in the Game Pass Cloud library with your phone or tablet, immediately. Just open the Game Pass app, go to the Cloud tab, find the game, and hit "Play".

It still has more of an issue with input lag than Stadia. It really prefers you to be close to your router, too. Those in cities nearer to a server with lower ping probably have a much better experience. The app takes forever if you don't use a more recent, powerful phone with a stronger chipset, too. But yeah, it works. Sometimes I can't complete a Game Pass Quest via PC, so I have to use the Cloud to get the points.

Like if I play Cyberpunk on GeForce Now, can I max it and have smooth FPS? I just looked it up, and it seems too good to be true. It's awfully ambiguous with some important things, can you clear them up for me?

Thanks man. This will help while I'm trying to get a GPU through the goddamn Newegg shuffle, because I've given up on trying to grab one of the drops.

On that, I don't know if I got your official recommendation. RTX 3080, 3090, or RX 6900 XT? Assuming I can get retail price of course.

 

[Madmick]

Like if I play Cyberpunk on GeForce Now, can I max it and have smooth FPS? I just looked it up, and it seems too good to be true. It's awfully ambiguous with some important things, can you clear them up for me?

Yes, you can max settings. If you reference my OP:

• Rendering Power:
  11.76 TFLOPS for Basic Edition
  12.86 TFLOPS (w/76 ray-tracing cores) for RTX-enabled Founder's Edition

So the free "Basic" version offers GPU power equivalent to the RTX 2080 Super, but without ray-tracing; the paid Founder's Edition offers the equivalent of the RTX 2080 Ti, but with ray-tracing. However, that doesn't mean it looks as good as it would on your own PC. NVIDIA renders the image on their servers, compresses it in real-time, and then streams that image to your computer.

The ceiling data rate of the stream NVIDIA will deliver is 50 Mbps. To run 4K@60fps on modern displays requires a minimum of 17.82 Gb/s of throughput: 356x what you're getting with GeForce. This extraordinary demand is what requires those HDMI 2.1 cables. In fact, you need at least 22x as much bandwidth to run 1080p@30fps.

Does that mean the image looks like crap? Not at all. It looks far, far, far better than uncompressed images that rival its size. That's because the image is being rendered natively with pure fidelity on their servers. It is then compressed and sent back to your computer. Think of Netflix, Disney+, or Amazon Prime. You watch a movie and even the largest 4K stream in its entirety is 8GB or so. The uncompressed file would have to be around 6TB (~750x this size). It wouldn't even fit on the largest BDXL Blu-Ray discs. Blu-Ray itself is compressed. The 4K discs you buy are 50GB. So why do the streaming services look so good? Because they've compressed the native image intelligently. That's what GeForce Now does.

Thanks man. This will help while I'm trying to get a GPU through the goddamn Newegg shuffle, because I've given up on trying to grab one of the drops.

You can test out GeForce Now for free. You'll be put in a queue. However, back when I first tried it out, the queue's would tell me "35 minutes", for example, but I never waited more than a few minutes, especially at night or in the early AM (North American time). Queues were sometimes instant. After I'd played half a dozen sessions suddenly those waits became real.

On that, I don't know if I got your official recommendation. RTX 3080, 3090, or RX 6900 XT? Assuming I can get retail price of course.

The 3090 is a terrible value even at MSRP. If you're rich get that. Otherwise, if you are targeting the top performance levels, get the RTX 3080 or RX 6900 XT. Whichever is available.

I think the RTX 3070, RX 6800, and RX 6800 XT are the best buys at MSRP.

 

[rikwebb]

A one year EA Play code now only converts to 2 months of Xbox Gamepass extension instead of 4 like it used to. Seems to be a recent change, that i haven't seen reported anywhere

 

[Madmick]

A one year EA Play code now only converts to 2 months of Xbox Gamepass extension instead of 4 like it used to. Seems to be a recent change, that i haven't seen reported anywhere

That blows. Another hit to recurring users. They're still doing the $1 for 3 months Ultimate, but that's only available for new users.

Fortunately, there are some silver linings...
Mass Effect: Legendary Edition is cheaper on Game Pass Ultimate than A La Carte
*Edit* Nope, nvm, sigh.
PSA: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Won't Be On Game Pass, Just EA Play Pro

And some good news...
Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance coming to Xbox Game Pass at launch

 

[Madmick]

While Sony appears intent on splashing into the great streaming rush, it would seem Netflix has the inverse intention in mind:
Netflix Seeks Executive to Expand Game Efforts

Netflix is looking to hire an executive to oversee an expansion into videogames, a sign it is stepping up its efforts to grow beyond traditional filmed entertainment, according to people familiar with the situation.

In recent weeks, Netflix has approached veteran game industry executives about joining the company, the people said. While the company has already dabbled in games—for example, it created a game based on “Stranger Things” with an outside developer—it is looking at boosting its investments in the category. One option the company has discussed is offering a bundle of games similar to Apple’s online subscription offering, Apple Arcade, one of the people said.

https://www.polygon.com/22447410/netflix-executive-games-expansion-the-information-report

A Netflix spokesperson told Polygon the company is “excited to do more with interactive entertainment.” The full statement is available below.

Our members value the variety and quality of our content. It’s why we’ve continually expanded our offering — from series to documentaries, film, local language originals and reality TV. Members also enjoy engaging more directly with stories they love — through interactive shows like Bandersnatch and You v. Wild, or games based on Stranger Things, La Casa de Papel and To All the Boys. So we’re excited to do more with interactive entertainment.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

While Sony appears intent on splashing into the great streaming rush, it would seem Netflix has the inverse intentions in mind:
Netflix Seeks Executive to Expand Game Efforts

https://www.polygon.com/22447410/netflix-executive-games-expansion-the-information-report

Love Death + Robots: the Game. Get fucked by a space spider posing as your hot ex-girlfriend

 

[GSP_37]

Does Apple Arcade have anything good to check out during free trial? I'm assuming I'd have to connect my PS4 controller to Apple TV.

 

[JaviBrewski]

question for those who have EA PLay. anyone encounter issues, framerate wise with games? my rx580 should be more than enough to play fifa21, and yet it stutters like you wouldnt believe.

 

[Madmick]

Xbox cloud upgrade is live: Series X power on your browser for over 260 games
Game Pass Ultimate's $15/mo now goes a lot further, and we break down why.

And with that, Microsoft's xCloud is now a major league hitter on par with NVIDIA's GeForce Now. Obviously, with cloud gaming, the sprawl of server centers matters more, because if it's across the world it doesn't matter how powerful the server is. Second to that is the software technology powering this cloud, and how well engineered it is. Your internet quality & speed must also meet the minimum requirements for anything to matter.

However, the power of the servers themselves will hamstring everything out of the gate if they are wanting. I assure you, this was drastically noticeable when comparing NVIDIA GeForce titles over the past several months versus Microsoft's Cloud when streaming (PC vs. PC or Android vs. Android). For example, it was easy to tell the source video for Control was running on an Xbox One, and wouldn't even look that good if it was running locally.

I believe NVIDIA is still ahead as far as software sophistication, and I definitely prefer the UI, which gives you some user control over the settings, but Microsoft's server network is the best in the world-- rivaled only by Amazon. Anyways, the relative power of cloud servers are listed in each service's respective FAQ in the OP, but I will distill them all here for the convenience of comparison. As I've explained in the past, FLOPS do oversimplify GPU performance, so I will also list the approximate 3DMark Time Spy score for each server to give a more accurate representation of gaming power in a similarly simple single number. Also bear in mind this doesn't factor in CPU or RAM performance. Microsoft's Gaming Cloud, in particular, lagged with the dismal 2013-era CPU of the Xbox One S.


MAJOR GAMING CLOUD SERVICES: SERVER PROCESSING POWER
Approximate 3DMark Score --- Teraflops (GPU of Server) --- Peak Streaming Quality
Updated Aug-25-2023

NVIDIA GeForce Now
Ultimate
28,131 --- 48.74 TFLOPS (NVIDIA RTX 4080) --------------------------- 4K@60fps or 1440p@120fps, RTX-enabled
Priority
12,125 --- 12.86 TFLOPS (NVIDIA Grid RTX T10-8 / RTX 3060) --- 1080p@60fps, RTX-enabled
Free
11,075 --- 11.76 TFLOPS (NVIDIA Tesla P40 / RTX 2080) ------------ 1080@60fps

Microsoft Gaming Cloud
11,025 --- 12.15 TFLOPS (Xbox Series X) --- 4K@60fps or 1080p@120fps (depends on game)
830 ------- 1.40 TFLOPS (Xbox One S)

Amazon Luna
9,175 --- 8.14 TFLOPS (NVIDIA Tesla T4) --- 1080p@60fps

Google Stadia [defunct]
Stadia Pro
6,950 --- 10.7 TFLOPS (Custom AMD Vega 56) --- 4K@60fps, HDR, 5.1 Surround Sound
Stadia Basic
6,950 --- 10.7 TFLOPS (Custom AMD Vega 56) --- 1080p@60fps, SDR, Stereo Sound

Sony Playstation Plus Premium [formerly Playstation Now]
>800* --- 0.23 TFLOPS (Miniaturized PS3 Cluster-Units) --- 1080p@60fps for PS5, PS4 Pro, & PC; 1080p@30fps for PS4


*Very broad estimate here because the hardware is unique, and so old, there aren't even analogous PC GPUs from that era that can run the latest Time Spy benchmark. But the final PS3 GPU revision is 2/3rd as powerful in terms of FLOPS as the more modern NVIDIA GT 630 which averages a miserly 166 points on Time Spy. The PSNow racks are using motherboards that combine a PS3 CPU with a cluster of eight PS3 GPUs which I assume are running in parallel to increase the processing power, not just to reduce latency, but that isn't clear. The games weren't designed to run with multi-GPU setups, anyway, so the effective rendering power is feasibly below 100 as scored by Time Spy if they could even run the benchmark with that hardware, but I doubt they could. Anyway, the only thing one can confidently assert is that this offers the weakest rendering power of all cloud gaming services by a staggering amount.

 

[jefferz]

 

[method115]

Doesn’t sound like he was a fan of any of them.

 

[Madmick]

Doesn’t sound like he was a fan of any of them.

What purpose does a PC building and hardware review channel serve when nobody needs to build PCs, anymore?

 

[Swing]

Doesn’t sound like he was a fan of any of them.

I'm not sure how much time he even spends playing games at this point (I think he's said most of his time goes into the channel), but personally that level of input lag is still a nonstarter outside of turn-based games.

 

[jefferz]

What purpose does a PC building and hardware review channel serve when nobody needs to build PCs, anymore?

Are you insinuating that he gave them negative reviews because they own a pc hardware channel?

 

[rikwebb]

Next batch of games heading to Gamepass:

The Medium (cloud) July 15th
Dragon Quest Builders 2 (cloud) July 8th
UFC 4 (console) July 8th
Bloodroots (PC, console and cloud)July 15th
Tropico 6 ( PC , console and cloud) July 8th
Farming Simulator 19 (PC, console and cloud) July 15th

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Next batch of games heading to Gamepass:

The Medium (cloud) July 15th
Dragon Quest Builders 2 (cloud) July 8th
UFC 4 (console) July 8th
Bloodroots (PC, console and cloud)July 15th
Tropico 6 ( PC , console and cloud) July 8th
Farming Simulator 19 (PC, console and cloud) July 15th

Huh, I literally haven’t played an MMA game since Undisputed 2009 on my 360. I guess I can try out EA UFC 4 now, though I haven’t heard good things.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Are you insinuating that he gave them negative reviews because they own a pc hardware channel?

Streaming services will only work if each county gets their own dedicated datacenter. Where the likelihood of that happening is improbable. Meaning it'll be a hybrid system of datacenters and or a idle subsidized Pc.