Galv

LS1Rx7 said:
I use Marcellos style, and this is one of my go to sweeps sweeps from my open guard.
Most results in posting and a failed attempt, but that failed attempt usually leads to an easy single leg X Guard. ( should also lead to me attacking the arm they post with but straight arm bars are just not in my bag of tools yet)
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you mean the razor/reverse armbar from butterfly? very useful weapon for your game, but, again, requires a lot of focused mat time to hone it to the point where it's reliable in live rolling.

for my money, the entry and details that Jeremy Arel teaches regarding this move are more easily applicable than Marcelo's style. And again, Jeremy's version is more conservative, more methodical, and less reliant on crackerjack timing than Marcelo

 
ITT: Unarguably one of the best grapplers in history doesn't know how to preform one of his most signature techniques and was only able to succeed due to his superhuman physical attributes and spazzz.

Oh f12 you never change :redface:
 
Taptap said:
ITT: Unarguably one of the best grapplers in history doesn't know how to preform one of his most signature techniques and was only able to succeed due to his superhuman physical attributes and spazzz.

Oh f12 you never change :redface:
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Nothing by showing a more easier and higher percentage setup for the sweep. Lot of people reading f12 have different level and he did not say that mg stuff did not work. He just supplied a more entry level video in my opinion and explain the same reason,
 
waiguoren said:
Marcelo swept Askren easily with his version. Galvao couldn't even budge Weidman with his. Not saying one is better than the other, but it's interesting data.

Edit:

Rewatched Galvao-Weidman.

Galvao did "budge" Weidman, but barely. More importantly, we was trying the sweep with an overhook instead of an underhook.
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Not only was it with an overhook (Marcelo even says that sweeping with the overhook shouldn't work on someone really good), but it was 10 minutes into the match vs. a shirtless opponent, and Weidman was able to get his hand inside for the limp-arm, killing the whizzer pressure. It's hard to see, but it looks like he didn't have great control of the far arm either. Still, he got a very good lift, he just didn't have enough upper body control. I think he would have hit it all day in the gi, or even vs. a dry opponent.
 
Spazzmaster said:
Digressing a bit here, but i sometimes wonder about the cult of Marcelo. Don't get me wrong, i'm a huge Marcelo fanboy, but i'm not so blinded that i can't see certain realities.

for example, a lot of guys disdain Eddie Bravo's rubber guard game as being overly reliant on attributes, specifically flexibility. but no one seems to complain about the explosiveness and athleticism involved in Marcelo's game. People talk about good jiu jitsu being applicable by anyone. the 50 year old guy at my gym is going to have a hard time emulating Marcelo's wrestling-while-sitting energy

another example: this misconception that Marcelo is a small man. He's really not. he's competed at worlds at 180. that's not huge, sure, but it's a far cry from roosterweights like Bruno Malfacine or Felipe Costa, who are truly small men.

the truth is that Marcelo is a short, stocky middleweight with powerful legs and athletic gifts who has developed a highly individualized game. He had beautiful performances against bigger guys at absolute. But how he became the exemplar of small man BJJ, i don't really know. guys like Galvao and Monson are short for their weight categories, nobody brings them up in the small man BJJ conversation.

to say again, i admire Marcelo a ton, not just for his jiu jitsu either. There just seem to be prevalent misconceptions about his game.
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I think a lot of the perceptions about Marcelo being a small guy came from the fact that he did so many absolutes so many years in a row. There are so many iconic matches of him riding Ricco Rodriguez' like a back pack, or going against a "who'd who" of legendary grapplers that were bigger than him. Xande, Roger, Drysdale, Jacare, Braulio, etc. When you combine that with his height, I mean I used to think he was pretty damn small when I first started seeing his matches.

I don't know enough to throw my hat it on the other stuff, but I know there are opinions out there. I do think that arm triangle variations can be used by 9/10 people with very minimal strength, but that's another discussion. Marcelo obviously has his reasons, and he's done fantastic, and he's producing fantastic grapplers. I can't wait to get up to NYC and train there.
 
Marcelo is a lot bigger in person than he looks in video.
 
"Guy doesn't even do Kimuras because they take too much much strength"

That guy's game must be really attribute dependent.
 
fanboysareevil said:
"Guy doesn't even do Kimuras because they take too much much strength"

That guy's game must be really attribute dependent.
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I'm going to play devil's advocate, so don't take this as me disagreeing. MG is my favorite of all time, and I think he's the GOAT.

I think what Spazzmaster was getting at, is that sometimes people have a tendency to advocate what works for them. the Mendes brothers do the same thing. This is a good comparison because they both are super well known, have pretty different games, yet they both will say that they don't think their games are attribute based.

So there are a couple of options: either one of them is lying, wrong, or the truth is somewhere else. I'll give a few examples. During a nogi private lesson, I was asking Rafa Mendes about the guillotine and the north south choke, and told me that since he was long arms, especially for his weight, that he finds arm-in chokes like the anaconda, darce, and arm triangle to be much easier for him, because his arms don't have to close off as much space. And that the rear naked choke is really the only arm-out choke that he does with frequency.

This is the complete opposite of Marcelo's position that 2 arms attacking the neck is always going to be stronger than 2 arms attacking the neck and the shoulder. I don't think either one is wrong, but I just think they're speaking from their own experiences and body types, etc. The Mendes brothers feel like Delariva guard is a great way to save energy, but Marcelo will say that he avoids the Delariva guard.

We could speculate all day about why they both feel so differently about the same things, and I have some guesses about things like why the Mendes brothers like to avoid half guard, or why MG doesn't like kimuras and arm triangles...but ultimately it doesn't matter.

Far be it for me to disagree with anyone that's so accomplished and incredible, but Mendes' or MG, I think that as long as you learn the principles of what makes jiu-jitsu work, that the specific techniques don't really matter that much. Along a great enough timeline, you'll find what works the best for you and your body type.

Unless someone is trying to be a serious competitor, I wouldn't worry too much (not saying that you are) about exactly what positions and techniques are the best or most effective. As long as you have a solid instructor, you're moving properly, and you're not doing outright stupid shit, I think people's jiu jitsu will evolve naturally to what works best for them.
 
I don't even think it's true anymore that Marcelo doesn't use arm triangles. He's been hitting them quite a bit in the sparring vids on his website over the past year. Especially the anaconda choke.
 
This is the same way that the Mendes brothers teach the hook sweep on their website and the same way that Robson Moura teaches the sweep on his first DVD set.
 
masada555 said:
This is the same way that the Mendes brothers teach the hook sweep on their website and the same way that Robson Moura teaches the sweep on his first DVD set.
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The first is true, but are you sure about the latter? I don't remember Robson teaching any of Galv
 
What a great video. Terere influenced so many people. IRC, Cobrinha shows the sweep on his dvd this way.
 
Drew Foster said:
So there are a couple of options: either one of them is lying, wrong, or the truth is somewhere else. I'll give a few examples. During a nogi private lesson, I was asking Rafa Mendes about the guillotine and the north south choke, and told me that since he was long arms, especially for his weight, that he finds arm-in chokes like the anaconda, darce, and arm triangle to be much easier for him, because his arms don't have to close off as much space. And that the rear naked choke is really the only arm-out choke that he does with frequency.

This is the complete opposite of Marcelo's position that 2 arms attacking the neck is always going to be stronger than 2 arms attacking the neck and the shoulder. I don't think either one is wrong, but I just think they're speaking from their own experiences and body types, etc.
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I believe Marcelo, in this case, is referring to opponents of any and all size. Rafa may have long arms for a lightweight, but I assure you, they're short against a heavy weight. Marcelo's chokes are supposed to work against opponents of any size, so in that situation, I believe he is more correct than Rafa. Marcelo has COMPETED against larger opponents many times. Rafa has limited competitions against larger guys. And even Rafa, in his gym rolls against larger opponents, always goes for the RNC.
 
I havent posted in a while here, but saw this as something I felt would be worth responding to. As one of the resident Garciaologists (next to Shemhazai and Drew Foster of course), I think that there are what I feel to be a few misconceptions about Marcelo's game (if we could only get Jeiteki or JRockwell to post in this thread).

Gripping:

While its definitely true, Marcelo doesnt have a 90 minute instructional broken down into bullet points providing step by step, sequential detail as to what you should be doing in the grip fight while playing the seated guard, there are more than enough videos pertaining to gripping on his site. Everything from where to grip, to how to grip, and most importantly WHEN to grip. Is it all in one place? No, not at all, its scattered about all over the website. However, the plus side is that you have a wonderful tagging system that makes finding every video related to hand fighting extremely easy, and being able to see him do it in action even easier.

The biggest flaw most people will have in trying to emulate any portion of anyones games is trying to plug together missing pieces of a puzzle to make the puzzle complete. Alot of people miss alot of Marcelo's pieces, and have difficulty when something is missing. Gripping is just one of those pieces to the overall puzzle, but the pieces are definitely there, you just have to know where to look, and more importantly how to look.

Marcelo's Hook Sweep:

I'll be the first to admit, getting used to Marcelo's butt hop style hook sweep was hard for me, but after some practice I was able get better at it. I've been playing seated guard as my primary guard for close to 9 years now and I've tried them all. Cobrinha's/Terere's/Andre's/Lucas' way, Robinho's way, etc. etc. and I've found beneficial things in all of them. For the most part it really all just boils down to the contingency that you have set up when the sweep fails.

Playing The Seated Guard:

Lastly, and this is the most important part, playing seated guard has to be (IMO) looked at in the same fashion that you look at Judo (if done in the Gi), and the same as if you were wrestling (if your doing NoGi). Everything is 100% about gripping and counter gripping before anything else gets involved. I guess in a way this links back to the first point I made about people having difficulty with MGs system and it being primarily because they dont understand his system of grip fighting (a system does exist).

Hopefully this post didnt come off as me trying to jab at people "naysaying" Marcelo, but was more so my attempt as a devout, die hard Stan (not fan, Stan damnit) to help shed some light on an otherwise mildly dim area of MGs game to non-Stans.
 
Aethyr said:
I believe Marcelo, in this case, is referring to opponents of any and all size. Rafa may have long arms for a lightweight, but I assure you, they're short against a heavy weight. Marcelo's chokes are supposed to work against opponents of any size, so in that situation, I believe he is more correct than Rafa. Marcelo has COMPETED against larger opponents many times. Rafa has limited competitions against larger guys. And even Rafa, in his gym rolls against larger opponents, always goes for the RNC.
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I mean I see what you're saying, but he also darce choked Keenan on the most recent video they put up last week, and Keenan is much larger than Rafa. He also anaconda choked Galvao on a video from 2 weeks ago, and again, Galvao is quite a bit bigger than Rafa. Those are 2 different arm triangles on 2 guys that compete several weight classes over him.

I don't know. I'm just (probably overly) strong in my position about arm triangles, but I truly believe they can be done without a lot of strength. I mean if you're talking ANY size, I agree with you. But unless you have absolute t-rex arms, or you're outweighed by 50+ lbs, if you have proper technique, and use your positioning and weight to do the choking, instead of squeezing your arms, there shouldn't be too many people that you can't finish arm triangles on. There are lots of super high level people that hold the same opinion, and I like to think I'm not saying anything crazy.

Marcelo Garcia is my favorite of all time, and you definitely don't have to sell me on the fact that he's competed in absolutes. When I first got into the sport in 2007 one of the first matches I ever saw was Marcelo against Rodriguez.

I completely understand and respect his philosophy. I'm just saying Marcelo himself is doing quite a bit of arm triangles on MGinaction. There's been a ton on there over the past couple of years. Again I def don't need to be sold on Marcelo or his accomplishments. I've been on MGinaction since the day it went live. I respect his stance on the issue and he certainly has forgotten more about grappling than I will ever know.

Sorry to hijack the thread friends.

DarceBrabo said:
I havent posted in a while here, but saw this as something I felt would be worth responding to. As one of the resident Garciaologists (next to Shemhazai and Drew Foster of course), I think that there are what I feel to be a few misconceptions about Marcelo's game (if we could only get Jeiteki or JRockwell to post in this thread).

Gripping:

While its definitely true, Marcelo doesnt have a 90 minute instructional broken down into bullet points providing step by step, sequential detail as to what you should be doing in the grip fight while playing the seated guard, there are more than enough videos pertaining to gripping on his site. Everything from where to grip, to how to grip, and most importantly WHEN to grip. Is it all in one place? No, not at all, its scattered about all over the website. However, the plus side is that you have a wonderful tagging system that makes finding every video related to hand fighting extremely easy, and being able to see him do it in action even easier.

The biggest flaw most people will have in trying to emulate any portion of anyones games is trying to plug together missing pieces of a puzzle to make the puzzle complete. Alot of people miss alot of Marcelo's pieces, and have difficulty when something is missing. Gripping is just one of those pieces to the overall puzzle, but the pieces are definitely there, you just have to know where to look, and more importantly how to look.

Marcelo's Hook Sweep:

I'll be the first to admit, getting used to Marcelo's butt hop style hook sweep was hard for me, but after some practice I was able get better at it. I've been playing seated guard as my primary guard for close to 9 years now and I've tried them all. Cobrinha's/Terere's/Andre's/Lucas' way, Robinho's way, etc. etc. and I've found beneficial things in all of them. For the most part it really all just boils down to the contingency that you have set up when the sweep fails.

Playing The Seated Guard:

Lastly, and this is the most important part, playing seated guard has to be (IMO) looked at in the same fashion that you look at Judo (if done in the Gi), and the same as if you were wrestling (if your doing NoGi). Everything is 100% about gripping and counter gripping before anything else gets involved. I guess in a way this links back to the first point I made about people having difficulty with MGs system and it being primarily because they dont understand his system of grip fighting (a system does exist).

Hopefully this post didnt come off as me trying to jab at people "naysaying" Marcelo, but was more so my attempt as a devout, die hard Stan (not fan, Stan damnit) to help shed some light on an otherwise mildly dim area of MGs game to non-Stans.
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Nice to see you back from the dead. Good post homie.
 
DarceBrabo said:
I havent posted in a while here, but saw this as something I felt would be worth responding to. As one of the resident Garciaologists (next to Shemhazai and Drew Foster of course), I think that there are what I feel to be a few misconceptions about Marcelo's game (if we could only get Jeiteki or JRockwell to post in this thread).

Gripping:

While its definitely true, Marcelo doesnt have a 90 minute instructional broken down into bullet points providing step by step, sequential detail as to what you should be doing in the grip fight while playing the seated guard, there are more than enough videos pertaining to gripping on his site. Everything from where to grip, to how to grip, and most importantly WHEN to grip. Is it all in one place? No, not at all, its scattered about all over the website. However, the plus side is that you have a wonderful tagging system that makes finding every video related to hand fighting extremely easy, and being able to see him do it in action even easier.

The biggest flaw most people will have in trying to emulate any portion of anyones games is trying to plug together missing pieces of a puzzle to make the puzzle complete. Alot of people miss alot of Marcelo's pieces, and have difficulty when something is missing. Gripping is just one of those pieces to the overall puzzle, but the pieces are definitely there, you just have to know where to look, and more importantly how to look.

Marcelo's Hook Sweep:

I'll be the first to admit, getting used to Marcelo's butt hop style hook sweep was hard for me, but after some practice I was able get better at it. I've been playing seated guard as my primary guard for close to 9 years now and I've tried them all. Cobrinha's/Terere's/Andre's/Lucas' way, Robinho's way, etc. etc. and I've found beneficial things in all of them. For the most part it really all just boils down to the contingency that you have set up when the sweep fails.

Playing The Seated Guard:

Lastly, and this is the most important part, playing seated guard has to be (IMO) looked at in the same fashion that you look at Judo (if done in the Gi), and the same as if you were wrestling (if your doing NoGi). Everything is 100% about gripping and counter gripping before anything else gets involved. I guess in a way this links back to the first point I made about people having difficulty with MGs system and it being primarily because they dont understand his system of grip fighting (a system does exist).

Hopefully this post didnt come off as me trying to jab at people "naysaying" Marcelo, but was more so my attempt as a devout, die hard Stan (not fan, Stan damnit) to help shed some light on an otherwise mildly dim area of MGs game to non-Stans.
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Welcome back
 
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