Galv

[segfault]

I'm a huge fan of both Andre and Marcelo, subscribed to both their websites (mginaction almost since day 1), been to seminars by both where they each taught their version of the butterfly. I even asked direct questions to each one on details of their sweep.

However, as someone for the past 5 years who has used the butterfly almost exclusively for guard (I play very little closed or halfguard), I would say the purest and most effective style of butterfly is the one of Carlos Machado. The way he teaches it makes it effective for a slow, weak, broken down old man like myself...

 

[Obscure Terror]

Chris Haueter showed the butterfly sweep the Galvao way too.

When I had a private with Braulio he was all about explosion however, and "shooting" under the opponent Marcelo style. I've found that the latter works really well off an armdrag setup where you initiate, but the slower Terere/Galvao/Haueter variation is more technical when you're caught in a grip fight. It isn't something where you "trigger and go".

I think what Spazzmaster was getting at, is that sometimes people have a tendency to advocate what works for them. the Mendes brothers do the same thing. This is a good comparison because they both are super well known, have pretty different games, yet they both will say that they don't think their games are attribute based.

So there are a couple of options: either one of them is lying, wrong, or the truth is somewhere else. I'll give a few examples. During a nogi private lesson, I was asking Rafa Mendes about the guillotine and the north south choke, and told me that since he was long arms, especially for his weight, that he finds arm-in chokes like the anaconda, darce, and arm triangle to be much easier for him, because his arms don't have to close off as much space. And that the rear naked choke is really the only arm-out choke that he does with frequency.

This is the complete opposite of Marcelo's position that 2 arms attacking the neck is always going to be stronger than 2 arms attacking the neck and the shoulder. I don't think either one is wrong, but I just think they're speaking from their own experiences and body types, etc. The Mendes brothers feel like Delariva guard is a great way to save energy, but Marcelo will say that he avoids the Delariva guard.

We could speculate all day about why they both feel so differently about the same things, and I have some guesses about things like why the Mendes brothers like to avoid half guard, or why MG doesn't like kimuras and arm triangles...but ultimately it doesn't matter.

You're 100% right IMO. I'm tall for my weight with long arms, this makes d'arce, anaconda and arm triangles work really well. If I go for a head-only guillotine I usually have to "McKenzie-tine" the grips to get the security I need. I have had a few taps with the Marcelo style guillotine as I have flexible shoulders, but there is just lots of space in between my arms to close.

Funny that this came up as again, Braulio mentioned in my private lesson that he thinks tall guys, by that he means tall for their weight, should focus on arm triangle variations. His exact words were "you need to surround his neck with more meat, so filling that space with his shoulder will be more effective for us tall guys". I've never caught arm-in guillotines in 3 years of training, he taught me one on that day that I probably get off every time I play guard now.

It also tallies with my instructor, who is a short and stocky super featherweight, and his head-only guillotine and RNC are killer. He struggles with arm triangles.

This logic would also explain why Ryan Hall is awesome with his arm triangles too - tall for the weight.

 

[dimmyfinster]

I'm a huge fan of both Andre and Marcelo, subscribed to both their websites (mginaction almost since day 1), been to seminars by both where they each taught their version of the butterfly. I even asked direct questions to each one on details of their sweep.

However, as someone for the past 5 years who has used the butterfly almost exclusively for guard (I play very little closed or halfguard), I would say the purest and most effective style of butterfly is the one of Carlos Machado. The way he teaches it makes it effective for a slow, weak, broken down old man like myself...

Lol don't get zankou started on the Carlos machado butterfly hook dvd..

 

[segfault]

Lol don't get zankou started on the Carlos machado butterfly hook dvd..

Oops, I guess I missed the thread(s)....

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f12/dvd-review-carlos-machado-secrets-hook-flip-1635181/

 

[Terror Zone]

Kying you know this thread is beginning to make me think about something Marcelo has said recently. He looks at his hook sweep as the equivalent to a boxers jab. The jab isnt ever expected to be a knockout punch (completed sweep), and alot of times you'll miss the jab (miss the sweep), but the Jab is great to keep throwing (keep attempting the sweep) because not only will you eventually connect (hit the sweep), its great to use it to connect other punches to it (other sequences).

That was a pretty good explanation to his theory IMO.

I feel like when I try to hit the sweep like Marcelo does, I can usually get X Guard out of it if I can't finish and I can almost always sweep from there. If I try to do it the way Galvao teaches, I still have options if I don't hit the sweep but they don't mesh as well with the rest of my game. I'm built exactly like a bigger version of Marcelo though so it makes sense that I do so well with his game.

 

[Ned Stark]

The Terere sweep is my all time favorite sweep so I will definitely utilize this variation. Thanks for sharing!